Assistance with room dimensions

[audioguy]

I am in the early stages of thinking about selling my home and moving. The house we are considering has a room that would be my HT/listening room. The existing dimensions (if I do nothing to change them) are 24'8" long by 16'10" wide by 96" high (YUCK).

I can do nothing with with the height (I refuse to lower it even if it would help). The length will be shortened as I need to build a "wall" to hang the screen and maybe make room to have my center channel behind the screen. The amount I shorten the room is somewhat flexible. The width can also be reduced but I would not want to reduce it much.

I have the SGTH Excel spread sheet but I'm looking for and other advice on how I might best determine the appropriate dimensions. This will be a dedicated space so whatever room acoustics are necessary will be utilized.

Utilizing the SGTH model and the dimensions as is will create serious resonance at approximately 68 and 70hz from the height/length combination (fails the Bonello dimension analysis test). I had another room with similar dimensions and it had a 15 db peak at about 65hz !!!!

I am open to any recommendations.

The other home we are considering has a room of approximately 19' x'27' x 8 feet, but that home has some other issues we would prefer not to have.

 

[KlausR.]

You may consider this thread useful:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?9752-The-myth-of-generic-optimum-room-dimension-ratios

Klaus

 

[microstrip]

My .02 - problems in the 65-70 zone are very simple to solve with some form of bass absorption. Go for the larger room you can afford, as long as it is not a squared room.

When I got a new house the listening room was a low priority. Location, a nice garden and a house where the whole family would feel comfortable were the key points. I ended up joining two rooms in the ground floor to get my office and listening space. Although I would love to have an extra 2 feet width and height, I am very pleased with it.

 

[rbbert]

If you end up with only one serious resonance (peak) that would usually be considered a great room!

 

[steve williams]

My .02 - problems in the 65-70 zone are very simple to solve with some form of bass absorption. Go for the larger room you can afford, as long as it is not a squared room.

When I got a new house the listening room was a low priority. Location, a nice garden and a house where the whole family would feel comfortable were the key points. I ended up joining two rooms in the ground floor to get my office and listening space. Although I would love to have an extra 2 feet width and height, I am very pleased with it.

Boy, I know that feeling well Francisco

 

[audioguy]

So, Steve, how is your listening space progressing?

 

[steve williams]

sounding very good Chuck. A totally different experience than my last room

 

[andromedaaudio]

When do we get to see the pics and read the full report ???

 

[steve williams]

When do we get to see the pics and full report ???

I have a pair of JL Audio F113 Fathom subs on order (I sold my pair of Gotham subs as the room is too small for them) and I want to integrate them into the system first before I do.

It was the biggest challenge of my 50 years in this hobby to tame this room for my speakers. I must say that I have been very pleased with how things are sounding. The room is very heavily treated (even though not one of the room treatments is visible) which allowed me to snug the speakers up very close to the side walls without suffering any audio short comings. In my previous room the speakers were 11 feet apart and 12 feet from speaker to listening position, whereas in this room speakers are 10 feet apart and listening distance remains 12 feet. My acoustician has also been refining the mathematical mapping of my room and is designing a few other tweaks for the room. What struck me from the first time I powered on the system after it was in crates for 8 months in my garage was how much better the bass sounded in this room as compared to the last. I am sure that the smaller room size allows for much more air movement. Nonetheless I have the pair of F113's coming

 

[microstrip]

I have a pair of JL Audio F113 Fathom subs on order (I sold my pair of Gotham subs as the room is too small for them) and I want to integrate them into the system first before I do.

(...) The room is very heavily treated (even though not one of the room treatments is visible) which allowed me to snug the speakers up very close to the side walls without suffering any audio short comings. In my previous room the speakers were 11 feet apart and 12 feet from speaker to listening position, whereas in this room speakers are 10 feet apart and listening distance remains 12 feet. My acoustician has also been refining the mathematical mapping of my room and is designing a few other tweaks for the room. What struck me from the first time I powered on the system after it was in crates for 8 months in my garage was how much better the bass sounded in this room as compared to the last. I am sure that the smaller room size allows for much more air movement. Nonetheless I have the pair of F113's coming

Should we believe than soon we will have a thread on your new room? I am really curious to know about the lateral wall treatments!

 

[steve williams]

Should we believe than soon we will have a thread on your new room? I am really curious to know about the lateral wall treatments!

Double thickness with soundboard being glued and screwed to underlying drywall. Biggest treatment is in the drapes which contain a proprietary fabric which looks like a thin piece of cotton but has absorptive capabilities similar to stuffing your walls with 2" of insulation. This is between the drape and the drape lining. I am also using proprietary tuning tubes in the rear corners behind the drapes.

The drapes were the most expensive of all room treatments used.

 

[microstrip]

Double thickness with soundboard being glued and screwed to underlying drywall. Biggest treatment is in the drapes which contain a proprietary fabric which looks like a thin piece of cotton but has absorptive capabilities similar to stuffing your walls with 2" of insulation. This is between the drape and the drape lining. I am also using proprietary tuning tubes in the rear corners behind the drapes.

The drapes were the most expensive of all room treatments used.

Too many drapes ... Can I assume that the drape is the external finish of the walls? What are you calling the drape lining? What do you mean by proprietary - a brand name or just something not one can get?

 

[steve williams]

Proprietary from my acoustician. Yes you can buy it too. Yes the drapes are covering all the walls. Room becomes quite a sound chamber. The underlying double thickness walls also provide sound damping. I also have double thickness on the ceiling with the 11 Helmholtz resonators. The entire floor has also been treated with another proprietary treatment. Both the drapes and floor treatment essentially convert floor and the drapes to a large bass trap. More to follow.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I have a pair of JL Audio F113 Fathom subs on order (I sold my pair of Gotham subs as the room is too small for them) and I want to integrate them into the system first before I do.

a question; did you consider the f112's or f110's instead of the f113's? i only ask that question because in my room when i had the pair of f113's they were not 'fast' enough to integrate with the Evolution Acoustics MM3's. so i sold them. i know you had the Gotham's nicely integrated with your X-2's already but that was a much larger room. and maybe your approach to this integration issue is better than what i did. i'm not saying that the f113's won't work out perfect; more i'm curious how you decided on them.

It was the biggest challenge of my 50 years in this hobby to tame this room for my speakers. I must say that I have been very pleased with how things are sounding. The room is very heavily treated (even though not one of the room treatments is visible) which allowed me to snug the speakers up very close to the side walls without suffering any audio short comings. In my previous room the speakers were 11 feet apart and 12 feet from speaker to listening position, whereas in this room speakers are 10 feet apart and listening distance remains 12 feet. My acoustician has also been refining the mathematical mapping of my room and is designing a few other tweaks for the room. What struck me from the first time I powered on the system after it was in crates for 8 months in my garage was how much better the bass sounded in this room as compared to the last. I am sure that the smaller room size allows for much more air movement. Nonetheless I have the pair of F113's coming

Double thickness with soundboard being glued and screwed to underlying drywall. Biggest treatment is in the drapes which contain a proprietary fabric which looks like a thin piece of cotton but has absorptive capabilities similar to stuffing your walls with 2" of insulation. This is between the drape and the drape lining. I am also using proprietary tuning tubes in the rear corners behind the drapes.

The drapes were the most expensive of all room treatments used.

Proprietary from my acoustician. Yes you can buy it too. Yes the drapes are covering all the walls. Room becomes quite a sound chamber. The underlying double thickness walls also provide sound damping. I also have double thickness on the ceiling with the 11 Helmholtz resonators. The entire floor has also been treated with another proprietary treatment. Both the drapes and floor treatment essentially convert floor and the drapes to a large bass trap. More to follow.

wow Steve! sounds like a very interesting design with lots of agressive acoustical components. thanks for the details.

i assume from your description of the 'drapes' that they will be somewhat adjustable....in other words the degree of absorbtion can be varied and tuned by ear. i know in my room it was not until i lived with it for quite awhile before i realized it was over damped both regarding bass absortion and surface mid and high frequency absorbtion. i recall my smaller previous room needed quite a bit of absorbtion to allow higher SPL's....and tuneing that took me a couple of years.

i'm excited to see the final result and am happy for you to get the process behind you.

 

[microstrip]

(...) i'm excited to see the final result and am happy for you to get the process behind you.

I feel happy that I am not the only one!

 

[steve williams]

The drapes can be tuned by opening and closing

My RT60 initially was 0.45

I will have some further results tomorrow

BTW, I still haven't spiked the speakers

 

[steve williams]

Interesting question on the F113's Mike but you're correct that the Gotham pair worked just fine. I'm told (but am not sure how reliable the info is) that there is a new driver and/or technology on the F212 which makes it faster than the F113 but I'm not going to pursue that route

 

[microstrip]

Interesting question on the F113's Mike but you're correct that the Gotham pair worked just fine. I'm told (but am not sure how reliable the info is) that there is a new driver and/or technology on the F212 which makes it faster than the F113 but I'm not going to pursue that route

The F212 and the F110 are more modern designs, that have some technological improvements not found in the F112 or F113, but as far as I know no one wrote about how this affects their sound quality. Do you have measured the bass frequency response of your system in your room? If you are using the subs just to fill a gap in the lows and the main subwoofer of the X2 is reproducing the 18-30Hz zone perhaps two or four F110 can be a good choice.

 

[steve williams]

It is for fill only. You make an interesting point