BACCH-SP: the future of high-end audio?

soundArgument

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2013
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London
I've been awaiting this product for years. I expected a price point in the low five figures, but as I often find in high-end audio, the price point is higher than I thought it would be:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bacch-sp-3d-sound-experience

I'm curious to hear what others think about this product from a purely audiophile perspective and from a commercial perspective. I'm especially interested to hear from anyone who has actually listened to a system with this device.
 
I have some experience with crosstalk elimination, but not to the extent offered by BACCH-SP; just basic Ambiophonics. It certainly creates a tremendous WOW effect but after the wow wears off the effect becomes a distraction.

Like most virtual reality effects it is strictly a solitary experience. The crosstalk cancelation is done by adding an out-of-phase and time-delayed signal from the opposite channel. While the listener in the sweet-spot is shouting, “WOW!” others in the room are shouting, “Turn it OFF!” because they are hearing the summation of all the out-of-phase and time-delayed sound that was added to get the desired effect at sweet-spot but nowhere else. In that respect I think BACCH-SP will be much worse because as the listener with the headset moves, the total sound field in the room will change to accommodate.

All in all, I don’t think filling the room with bad sound just to get a particular effect in one precise location serves the music. I feel the same way about Digital Room Correction. That said, I continue to use Ambiophonics with my desktop PC speakers. It is near-field, low-SPL, non-critical listening. The time delay is short and the total effect is not a distraction to others in the room.
 
Perhaps Tom Mallin can comment on this as I think part of what he finds attractive about his near-field set up, with speakers angles 90 degrees to each other, is the benefits of cross-talk cancellation. He does this with an idiosyncratic speaker set-up, rather than using electronics to neutralize out of phase signals from the opposite channel. At least I think that's the idea. I hope he will comment.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-Characteristics-Make-For-the-Best-Experience
 
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Just my personal opinion... my guess is that the designer has not spent a lot of time listening to equipment that actually images really well. Put another way: I'm glad I don't need my ear canals analyzed each time I go to a concert. Somehow I am still able to make out sound locations anyway, despite cancellation from the reverberant field.

There was a guy at CES about 23 years ago that had a much simpler idea that did much the same thing. He made little leather 'bat ears' that you wore mounted on your ears to give you more of the direct radiated information. It really did work and I wish I had a photo of how ridiculous it looked. Audiophiles want to have good sound, but they want to be styl'n too. He was never seen again.

At any rate, until the industry is really ready to throw out Blumlein with the bath, this is not likely to be the future.
 
IMO, just more silliness from the rags. It seems they will toss anything out there hoping the community will bite perhaps with the hope to inject some new revenues - as they appear wont to do from time to time.

Besides, the most realistic 3D from concert hall / audience perspective is already embedded in most recordings. We just haven't learned yet how to keep it audible at the speaker.

Moreover, I would think those who care about real performance improvements wouldn't want a 3D soundstage wrapped around our heads as John Atkinson referenced. I suspect too many times those who should know better by now, still don't. Instead they confuse enticing or exciting sonic phenomena with improved sense of realism. In all honesty, I suspect the rags' ultimate hope is that once again we are naive enough to confuse enticing or exciting sonic phenomena (or propaganda) with improved sense of realism.
 
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I still listen in the near field (ears about 55 inches from the speaker drivers), but not longer with the speakers subtending an unusually wide angle such as 90 degrees. I use 60-degree separation, having concluded that, except for the few available quasi-one-point stereo recordings and binaural recordings available, 60 degrees produces a more natural amount of left/right separation. If I want to hear the best imaging and staging from those few recordings, I lsit on the edge of my listening chair and lean in to get a much wider subtended angle between the speakers.

I don't believe that near-field listening and wide separation produce any really substantial amount of crosstalk cancellation. Both ears still hear the sound from both speakers. While distortion from listening room reflections is substantially lessened by near-field listening, that's not the same as actively reducing the sound heard from the left speaker by the right ear and vice versa.

Headphone listening, on the other hand, can produce near total crosstalk cancellation with no electronic processing whatsoever. Closed-back headphones are the best at this. The more "open" quality most listener ascribe to open-back headphones is at least partially attributable to the fact that such headphones produce substantially more interaural crosstalk between channels, though still obviously much less than even near-field speaker listening. And most people agree that the most open-sounding of all headphones are those which do not rest on the pinnae at all, but stand off a bit from one's head, such as the classic AKG 1000 or the new RAAL-requisite SR1a Earfield Headphone. It's odd that with headphone listening the usual electronic or physical manipulation aimed at producing more natural sound has been to reduce (rather than increase) crosstalk cancellation and reduce rather than increase left/right stereo separation. It makes sense, though, since most people want the primary apparent source of musical sound to be "out there" in front of them, not in the middle of the head or panned hard left or right. Locating the apparent sound source out in front has been difficult to achieve with headphones. Some of the best in this respect, to my ears, are the inexpensive NAD Viso HP-50 with Paul Barton's RoomFeel technology which, as I understand it, is primarily the product of meeting experimentally derived frequency response targets.

I have not hear BACCH-SP. However, I've used a few earlier electronic processors over the years which produce unusually wide and/or wrap-around staging through crosstalk cancellation and/or phase manipulation. One of the first to hit the market was Carver's Sonic Holography and I used a couple of iterations of that. Then there was the Hughes SRS processing which I also used (and still use since it's part of the audio in my Sony living room TV set-up), followed by Ambiophonics (Ralph Glasgal). I've used both the barrier approach to cancel crosstalk and the electronic version called XTC which was a "throw-in" processor in the TacT RCS 2.2XP which I owned for a few years.

These systems, while usually impressive on first hearing, can easily wear out their welcome. When "turned up" so as to produce a substantial wrap-around effect, I usually tire of the subtle (or not-so-subtle) phasey "tugging-at-my-ears" sensation which accompanies the wrap-around staging. In addition, there are usually at least subtle (or not-so-subtle) frequency response manipulations. The frequency response effects are not just not subjective, at least not for XTC which could produce very strong wrap-around effects from speakers 20 inches apart 80 inches from the listening position. I measured about 6 to 10 dB of boost in the lower two octaves and a rising high end which was up about 10 dB in the top octave compared to the measured response with XTC out of the signal path.

In my current system (Gradient 1.4 speakers, Lumin X1, Benchmark AHB2 amps) and listening room using near-field listening and 60-degree separation, with lots of dispersive room treatment, but no electronic manipulation, depending on the recording the imaging/staging goes from a narrow point (mono recordings) to substantial wrap around, of between 180 degrees and 270 degrees. The greatest wrap-around effects are generally produced from recordings which have obviously used phase manipulation to generate a bit or more of that "diffuse and directionless" quality you get in spades when your two channels are wired out of phase. Try most anything played on the Deep Space One or Space Station Soma channels of Soma FM.

Quasi-single-point recordings as well as binaural recordings played through my speakers also produce very wide, deep, and sometimes high stages with wrap-around approaching 180-degrees. Such recordings of acoustic music can be both fun to listen to and more "natural" sounding, as in more closely emulating the live concert hall sound you hear from the first ten rows or so where the direct sound of the instruments is "out there" in front but the instrumental sound projects up and to the sides and the concert-hall ambient halo projects up, back, far to the sides and indeed surrounds you.
 
After having listening to the Theoretica Applied Physics Bacch-SP Adio, over the course of in total 10 hours on three different occasions in my local store with multiple different high end amplifiers and speakers, and hundreds of tracks I today decided to bring it home with me.

Installation was made in the blink of an eye with the help of my local Theoretica representative and his associate.

I have the feeling I will never part from this machine and the technic it offers. I know, I now have a journey ahead of me to re-discover every piece of music I love and know by heart, and to discover new music with this companion at my side.

To honor the founder of this company and the work that he has achieved so far, and that I´ve feel the deepest respect for I for a time will use the Theoretica logo as "Avatar". I.e. I am not affiliated with this company more then emotional as I am now a very happy customer.

Wish you all a great day ahead.

Kind regards from Stockholm
 

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