Blind test

A Stradivarius suffering the same faith as so many high end cables

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...ce-between-stradivarius-violins-and-new-ones/

So many Strads have been so extensively repaired over the years that they are barely the original instruments anyway, but among vintage guitars and mandolins, the differences between old and new are subtle, and more important to the player than the listener. This surprises me. I would expect the player to know. So much for my expectations!

P
 
Not surprised TBH Vincent as this comes back to the articles I have linked and discussed in the past about threshold and how adjustments have to be made to accomodate JND, along with factoring and modelling-weighting decision process/etc.

Such test would had been better focusing just on preference and then study the data to see who selects new or the originals (38% it seems from the article "preferred" the original, using quotes as this is my word and taking on what they mean when saying "chose to take an old violin home").
Again this is compounded by offsetting biases than include test related influenced ones (such as AB order), and that preference can take much time to settle in for a person.

That all said (and is just my view I hasten to add), thanks for the link as interesting read.
Thanks
Orb
 
Like many similar studies, it doesn't "prove" anything, but it does, at least, say something about the significance of the differences often argued to be earth-shattering, obvious, and worthy of a great difference in value.

p
 
From time to time, the subject of the Stardivari replicas leaks in audio foruns.

Their only connection is that both aim at producing music. Almost nothing you can read in this article can be extrapolated to audio. The way a musician chooses (or shows a preference for an instrument) is completely different from choosing audio. The relation the musician establishes with the instrument takes a long time and is too subjective to be established in minutes.

For a long time replica makers have tried to promote themselves with this type of tests. Many classical music magazines have covered this subject, happily in much more in depth than this pseudo short study.
 
DBT's IMHO are nothing more than a tool in the tool box, they have there place. Items I've preferred in a DBT upon longer evaluation, I wanted to throw out the window, then again their were others I truly enjoyed after a longer listen. YMMV. If anyone actually buys anything by a dbt, they deserve that closet of no longer used items
 
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As I read it the title of the article is a little misleading. It seems in both tests the musicians could tell the strad apart, they just didn't prefer it.
 
Thanks, Vincent. That is great point of reference for us. In particular, I liked the comment by John Solonika (one of the 21 selected to play the violins).

If, after this, you cling to picayune critiques and dismiss the study, then I think you are in denial. If 21 of us could not tell in controlled circumstances and 1500 people could not tell any differences in a hall, and this is consistent with past studies…then it is time to put the myths out to pasture.

This is also important:

The imagined link between price and quality is a delusion but, .... it can be a pleasant one.

To conduct your own tests, get this CD/DVD: http://www.onyxclassics.com/cddetail.php?CatalogueNumber=ONYX4038

James Ehnes plays 12 of the greatest volins/cellos ever made. Can you hear the difference between the instruments on your system?
 
what is a difference?

A Stradivarius suffering the same faith as so many high end cables

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...ce-between-stradivarius-violins-and-new-ones/

First as a caveat: I am a violinist, I have been playing a (wonderful) Pietro Guarneri, made 1702 in Mantova - of all places, as he moved away from influence of his father Andrea, his teacher (Niccolo Amati) and the up and coming Stradivari.

The most important sentence in this remarkable test is: "Modern makers should be very happy"
Indeed modern makers are nowaday truly much better than ever before, and there is a real sense of excitement in the community, that we are actually overcoming the difficulty of finding an aedequate instrument be it not a Strad or a similar instrument be those four or five, almost uniquely italian names.

There is however a difference between blind tests: In all my testings of modern instruments i have often found a modern instrument which tries to and sometimes succeeds to emulate the sound of a Stradivari, or sometimes even a del Gesù - but rarerly if ever have I found a modern instrument trying to sound like a Stainer or like an Amati, or even like a Pietro Guarneri Mantova, which is actually a blend of those two stiles. In my opinion an instrument reveals its differences whilst working with it, over months and years, not in a testing.
This might seem like a bland excuse, but I really like my fiddle, because it is not better, but different, and I get outstanding results from it, even though I very well know, that I could grab a modern fiddle costing a % of it, and probably in a few weeks/months/years I might get similar results.
Please don't ask why I don't do it; i might, is all I can say.

But there is also a useful meaning: We have all noticed that prices have not doubled, not tripled but gone ten times over prices just a couple of years ago..
As always, the bigger financial investment is no guarantee for better return, as you have to work with it to make it sound..

And as a slightly nasty addendum: Curtin is a well respected violin maker who's made his name for perfect copies of old instruments - just so you know, what is a desired outcome. But again: modern makers can and must be proud!!

As to bows, that is a whole different chapter again!!
 
From time to time, the subject of the Stardivari replicas leaks in audio foruns.

Their only connection is that both aim at producing music. Almost nothing you can read in this article can be extrapolated to audio. The way a musician chooses (or shows a preference for an instrument) is completely different from choosing audio. The relation the musician establishes with the instrument takes a long time and is too subjective to be established in minutes.

For a long time replica makers have tried to promote themselves with this type of tests. Many classical music magazines have covered this subject, happily in much more in depth than this pseudo short study.

On a related note, and perhaps more relevant to auditioning Hifi equipment : it turns out that female violinists are far more likely to be hired if the auditions are 'blind'
http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/01/0212/7b.shtml
 
Thanks Vincent. That was an enjoyable and educational read. Good to know we have company in the musical instruments circle :).
 
egidius,
thanks for posting your own experiences as it is definitely food for thought.
Thanks
Orb
 
subjective / objective

egidius,
thanks for posting your own experiences as it is definitely food for thought.
Thanks
Orb

thanks Orb, it is certainly my subjective view - and this is probably the real difference to cables:
No one would try and find a neutral fiddle!!!

(This is probably the one Mantra in Audio i can't follow, because I am completely unable to detect it ;-)

e
 
I would like to clarify something: The article implied as if Stradivari has been taken of its pedestal: No way!
Any good instrument by a modern maker will not lessen the achievement of those makers before him. They stay wholly untouched by new achievements. Or does a good modern electrostat diminish the significance of Quad's?
e
 

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