My Magnepan 20.1 active with Atma-sphere MA-1 amps. A killer combo.

[Nuforce]

So I’ve had 20.1s for about 15 years, moving from Apogee Scintilla’s that needed a complete refurb. At that time, I decided on tube amplification over SS after auditioning the usual suspects at that time (Bryston, Krell, Classe, Spectral, Mark Levinson, et al). Now granted, I have 250 watts of pentode power running full range, but given my room setup, I’ve never felt the need for subs. I feel lucky in this regard — I get down to 30-32 hz just fine. I’ve spent a lot of time fine tuning the system over the years. Doesn’t make it any where near perfect, but it sure is musical. Both amplifiers and speakers have been 100% reliable


I can certainly understand why people use subs with Maggie’s. There’s not that distinctive “cone” slam, which granted is attractive and necessary for some kind of music. Sometimes, the room just can’t generate the low bass properly. Other times low is just not low enough.

I guess what I’ve read over the years is that there are many solutions to having Maggie’s reach their potential. What I’ve enjoyed is being able to easily hear when changes make a difference and then decided whether that difference is in the right direction, for example, cabling, power, and tubes.

Now what’s next? Maybe getting itchy to hear the Atmas-phere class D mono’s? 2 per side?

Have you ever tried running your 20.1 active? Worth trying if not.

 

[jeffreybehr]

How do the MA-1s sound full range?

My MA-1s, v. 3.1, drive my new HHR TLS-2s (86dB insensitive!)...

...superbly, even in the bottom octave.. Yes, those are PS Audio M1200s there when I shot that, but the MA-1s were in there previously, and I reinstalled them last night.. I had moved the speakers toward the listener* and about a foot closer together and had another of my sublime-music sessions.

I've replaced the main PS caps, added large Teflon-film SoniCaps bypasses on the main supply, replaced the coupling caps with Miflex copper/'propylene/paper-and-oil, added a Miflex bypassing the single HV supply, and installed Cardas rhodium-over-silver-over-copper binding posts.. Also added lots of SoundCoat-the-thicker to damp the ringing chassis.


* that is, to in front of the lowboy

 

[Nuforce]

Very nice speaker and nice to see another MA-1 owner.

Mine have the vcap CuTF upgrade but I'd like to do the caddock resistor upgrade too at some point.

Why 6SN7 tubes do you use? I use CV181-Z treasures.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I measured 27hz in my large listening room last time I took REW room measurements. I have absolutely no need to subs with my 20.1.

As Tao suggested in Post #9, above everything is a trade-off.

My friends who use subwoofers on 20.7s are doing so not to achieve a particular room measurement but to substitute some of the Magnepan’s panel bass for impactful cone bass. For me personally I would never have Magnepans without outboard subwoofers.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I only tried to couple them with subs but any kind of disparity with drivers or amps was just really obvious. They are revealing speakers for sure but everyone just has different sensitivities, I find incoherence really just glaring.

Yes, people have different sensitivities about different sonic attributes.

Consider that Avantgarde, Cessaro, Evolution Acoustics and Genesis Advanced Technologies all build into their loudspeakers amps of a different topology than the one they know their customers are very likely to use for the rest of the speaker. Mixing and matching amps (Class D and SET, for example) obviously is not anathema to these manufacturers.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I've always wondered if the 20.7 can be modified to bypass their passive components.

The only speakers I can eventually see myself replacing the 20.1 for would be the 20.7, purely to get a new pair for future proof reliability (mine are 100% ok but will eventually develop issues as they must be at least a decade old).

Decoupling the different panels with an active crossover opens up the magnepan owner to the world of triodes, rather than pentode based circuits which are nice but not as nice, in my experience

It can be done, but it’s so much messier in the 20.7 than it should be. Now it requires surgery. I personally would never do that.

Absent surgery one has to run a full-range signal through a crossover and high-pass to the Magnepan and low-pass to the subwoofers. I really don’t like running a full-range signal through an additional crossover.

I think it was a mistake for Wendell to eliminate in the 20.7 easy bi-amping.

One could use easily the midrange/tweeter panel from the 30.7 and cross-over to one’s favorite woofer tower, but Wendell will not sell that component separately.

 

[Gregadd]

Yes, people have different sensitivities about different sonic attributes.

Consider that Avantgarde, Cessaro, Evolution Acoustics and Genesis Advanced Technologies all build into their loudspeakers amps of a different topology than the one they know their customers are very likely to use for the rest of the speaker. Mixing and matching amps (Class D and SET, for example) obviously is not anathema to these manufacturers.

Ron,
That is why I posted the picture of the McIntosh MC90`1 monoblock amps. It has tube and solid state and does it all for you.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Yes, people have different sensitivities about different sonic attributes.

Consider that Avantgarde, Cessaro, Evolution Acoustics and Genesis Advanced Technologies all build into their loudspeakers amps of a different topology than the one they know their customers are very likely to use for the rest of the speaker. Mixing and matching amps (Class D and SET, for example) obviously is not anathema to these manufacturers.

That’s the way I see it also, it’s all about specific individual sensitivities and or expectations. For some coherency within a range is not an issue but for those of us who have coherency as one of the primary drivers in their needs from a system they are unlikely to buy a more diverse or complex speaker where wholeness may be more easily compromised.

I’ve always chosen less complex types of systems where unity has been a strength. Took me years to realise that was what I was choosing.

Whether our preferences grow out of hearing and perceptual sensitivities or are developed out of expectations or even determined by our music preferences or vice versa music preferences shaped by inherent sonic attributes or more likely possibly some reinforced interplay and enmeshed combination of all these things it just comes back to our varying experiences and expectations shaping our system preferences and buying patterns. Choices most usually involve a trade. For me after a lifetime trying 2,3 and 4 way box, ribbon planar and now OB horn it seems that for me a two way full range with first order passive crossover seems to be my most settled happy place.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That’s the way I see it also, it’s all about specific individual sensitivities and or expectations. For some coherency within a range is not an issue but for those of us who have coherency as one of the primary drivers in their needs from a system they are unlikely to buy a more diverse or complex speaker where wholeness may be more easily compromised.

I’ve always chosen less complex types of systems where unity has been a strength. Took me years to realise that was what I was choosing.

Whether our preferences grow out of hearing and perceptual sensitivities or are developed out of expectations or even determined by our music preferences or vice versa music preferences shaped by inherent sonic attributes or more likely possibly some reinforced interplay and enmeshed combination of all these things it just comes back to our varying experiences and expectations shaping our system preferences and buying patterns. Choices most usually involve a trade. For me after a lifetime trying 2,3 and 4 way box, ribbon planar and now OB horn it seems that for me a two way full range with first order passive crossover seems to be my most settled happy place.

Very well articulated!

The Pendragon is a 2-way with first order passive cross-over.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Very well articulated!

The Pendragon is a 2-way with first order passive cross-over.

Nice, I hadn’t realised… I think this seems the middle place between the absolute amazing simplicity of something like a pnoe horn and more complex full range speakers plus subs in multi way with higher order crossovers more typical of some of the other big guns, and am sure they all have their varying assets and strengths. I need the simplicity… I’m fairly easily distracted

 

[Nuforce]

It can be done, but it’s so much messier in the 20.7 than it should be. Now it requires surgery. I personally would never do that.

Absent surgery one has to run a full-range signal through a crossover and high-pass to the Magnepan and low-pass to the subwoofers. I really don’t like running a full-range signal through an additional crossover.

I think it was a mistake for Wendell to eliminate in the 20.7 easy bi-amping.

One could use easily the midrange/tweeter panel from the 30.7 and cross-over to one’s favorite woofer tower, but Wendell will not sell that component separately.

Having owned 1.6 and 1.7 maggies in the past and having bypassed the internal crossovers in both, I think the surgery would be pretty easy, you just need to identify the +/- wires for the bass and mid/tweeter, cut them, and then and attach them directly to your corresponding amps. A totally reversal procedure.

In theory!

 

[jeffreybehr]

Very nice speaker and nice to see another MA-1 owner.

Mine have the vcap CuTF upgrade but I'd like to do the caddock resistor upgrade too at some point.

Why 6SN7 tubes do you use? I use CV181-Z treasures.

Tung-Sol 6SN7GT/VT-231 roundplates in the 2 Voltage-gain positions, and Brimar curved-plate CV1988s in the other three positions.. I was astonished the other day to see the Brimars being offered for OVER $1000 EACH on eBay; good thing I bought mine when I did.

I also just bought a quad of Ken-Rad 'N7/VT-231s (close to TSRP performance) based on my years-ago experience with them and also Raytheon 1945-era 'N7/VT-231s on the recommendation of someone here; haven't yet heard either of those.

 

[Nuforce]

Tung-Sol 6SN7GT/VT-231 roundplates in the 2 Voltage-gain positions, and Brimar curved-plate CV1988s in the other three positions.. I was astonished the other day to see the Brimars being offered for OVER $1000 EACH on eBay; good thing I bought mine when I did.

I also just bought a quad of Ken-Rad 'N7/VT-231s (close to TSRP performance) based on my years-ago experience with them and also Raytheon 1945-era 'N7/VT-231s on the recommendation of someone here; haven't yet heard either of those.

Believe it or not these are supposed to be the best 6SN7 available including NOS.

Having said that I have almost 100 year old 112A globes in my DAC so I appreciate the allure of NOS!

 

[tima]

I also just bought a quad of Ken-Rad 'N7/VT-231s

That's quite a find!

Believe it or not these are supposed to be the best 6SN7 available including NOS.

Having said that I have almost 100 year old 112A globes in my DAC so I appreciate the allure of NOS!

I had good results with:
Sylvania VT-231/6SN7GT
Ken Rad VT-231 (black or clear glass)
RCA 6SN7GT/VT-231 gray glass

Never heard of LinLai.

The Audio Beat - MA-1 Mk 3.1: More Than "Another Upgrade"; Atma-Sphere MA-1 Mk 3.1 mono amps

read audio reviews, ratings, and user opinions on audio equipment before you buy an audio system

www.theaudiobeat.com

 

[Ron Resnick]

I've always wondered if the 20.7 can be modified to bypass their passive components.

Yes, but I believe it requires a little bit of surgery on the fabric.

 

[Nuforce]

I feel dirty admitting this but I'm tempted to try a pair of Martin Logan 15a after reading this Apogee busting review of the 11a.

Martin Logan Impression ESL 11A

Martin Logan loudspeakers have always had unbelievable transparency and spatial rendering. However, with the Impression ESL 11A, the company has taken a significant step forward.

www.hifi-advice.com