Looks like DEGRITTER are going to launch a new Degritter which was shown at last weeks Munich High End 2024 ?????
New Degritter at Munich High End 2024 ???
- Thread starter Bonesy Jonesy
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Along with a brush / roller assisted pre-wash facility and a cooling system for multiple non-stop record cleaning, it also looks like this Degritter may also have dual operating ultrasonic frequencies (maybe 40kHz and 120kHz) as it looks like it has two separate ultrasonic transducers on each side of the record that you can see inside one side of the machine on the YouTube video !
Brushes -- interesting. AudioDesk Systeme combined brushes and ultrasonic. I wonder if it rinses after brushing before it goes ultrasonic. Water cooling if temp goes over 35°. Commercial sized filters; be interested in how they are spec'd. Two water tanks, one for rinsing. Video presenter lady mentions "chemically filtered rinse water". Not sure what that might mean.
I didn't catch anything about dual frequency. Two transducers on either side of the record is what the Degritter I and II had, iirc. I believe some transducers can be operated at more than a single frequency so number is not definitive. Could be dual although early on the Degritter boys were pretty adamant that 120kHz was safe and lower was not. (Which is not true, but marketing.)
I"ll speculate it has the complexity of complete automation coupled with the requirement of a maximum horizontal space occupancy and that is why it remains a single-slot machine. Looks about desktop height. Video presenter (who is not from Degritter) seems pretty convinced the Fonotek is a commercial product for record stores, and the size/shape supports that theory, imo. (The size could be off-putting for someone who wants a toaster sized desktop machine.) Seeing the interior I could not help picturing the "Fonotek Service Technician" who travels from record store to record store, delivering supplies and maintaining machines -- kinda like the guy from Xerox who maintained our office machines.
She does offer an (in my opinion specious) editorial that if a single-slot machine can achieve a "100% perfect" clean record why would one want a machine able to clean 5 records at a time where "cleaning results are just 80 or 90% instead of having a perfectly cleaned record." Then mentions "just rumors I don't know if it's true um that it also can run 24/7". Guess that covers the case for throughput -- heh.
Speculates price at €6000 - €7000. The lower end of that is roughly in-line with my system.
I applaud this very interesting effort from Degritter. They have learned from reading our forums! I would wait a year for a shake-out period. Thank you BJ for bringing this forward.
I didn't catch anything about dual frequency. Two transducers on either side of the record is what the Degritter I and II had, iirc. I believe some transducers can be operated at more than a single frequency so number is not definitive. Could be dual although early on the Degritter boys were pretty adamant that 120kHz was safe and lower was not. (Which is not true, but marketing.)
I"ll speculate it has the complexity of complete automation coupled with the requirement of a maximum horizontal space occupancy and that is why it remains a single-slot machine. Looks about desktop height. Video presenter (who is not from Degritter) seems pretty convinced the Fonotek is a commercial product for record stores, and the size/shape supports that theory, imo. (The size could be off-putting for someone who wants a toaster sized desktop machine.) Seeing the interior I could not help picturing the "Fonotek Service Technician" who travels from record store to record store, delivering supplies and maintaining machines -- kinda like the guy from Xerox who maintained our office machines.
She does offer an (in my opinion specious) editorial that if a single-slot machine can achieve a "100% perfect" clean record why would one want a machine able to clean 5 records at a time where "cleaning results are just 80 or 90% instead of having a perfectly cleaned record." Then mentions "just rumors I don't know if it's true um that it also can run 24/7". Guess that covers the case for throughput -- heh.
Speculates price at €6000 - €7000. The lower end of that is roughly in-line with my system.
I applaud this very interesting effort from Degritter. They have learned from reading our forums! I would wait a year for a shake-out period. Thank you BJ for bringing this forward.
Thank you 'tima'.
Yes as you say 'tima', it has other interesting and useful features as well for record cleaning operations.
Maybe this will be the 'Holy Grail' of Record Cleaning Machines ????...who knows ! It does have quite a few very interesting features on it which no other RCM on the market has at the moment !
Regarding my comment on the 'dual' (two of for each side of the record) transducers, inside one side of the Degritter machine (with one of the panels off) the video shows two transducers together on one side of the record. Therefore also assuming that the other side of the record would have the same (otherwise you would have to take the record out and spin it to clean the other side). Therefore, thinking that one of the transducers is for say 40kHz and one for say 120kHz....just speculation at this moment in time.
Yes, I understand. It is possible that's what they are doing but, although I could be wrong, I don't think that's what they're doing, that is, only using one transducer for a given frequency -- that would make for a less powerful machine. The existing Degritters have two transducers on each side and they are not dual frequency. If they switched to offering dual frequency they would make a big deal of that as a primary new feature. But interesting speculation on your part.
I did not see any unique features, but maybe I missed something. How they do brushing may be more sophisticated than what's the brushing that's been done before. What may be unique about the Fonotek is the automation of a cycle from start to finish with no manual hands on at any point beyond inserting and removing the record.
We shall see!
Apologies 'tima' for my mistake on Degritter's transducers.
Yes, I see from the animation given in the DEGRITTER website that the Degritter does have two transducers for each side of the record but only one ultrasonic frequency (i.e. 120kHz).
Tim,
The photo of the filters identified the cannisters as an activate carbon, deionizer (resin-bed) and the 3rd would be a sediment/particulate filter. This is a very common 3-stage filter, and this appears the filter set - https://aquaphor.com/en-us/replacement-under-counter-filters/crystal-eco-replacement-set. In the book, in chapter VII I discuss the deionizer resin and chapter XIV I discuss activated carbon and demineralizer filter cartridges. The book also discusses how to size the radiator. And, as the book says Most ion exchange deionizers/demineralizers are limited to 100°F (38°C) operation. But with the they installed radiator, it's OK. So they installed a 3-stage filter.
How well will the activated carbon remove surfactants that carry over is questionable, but it may be good enough. The specifics for the sediment/particulate filter appear to be 0.1 mciron but unknown whether this is nominal or absolute https://aquaphor.com/media/uploads/files/web-catalog.pdf. But Aquaphor says they are using silver as a bactercide -https://aquaphor.com/media/uploads_files/passport_crystall_EXP_2020_SMALL.pdf.
These Aquaphor filters could be an option for you if you wanted to extend the life of your rinse-tank, but be careful of the tank temp. Otherwise, only the K7B 0.1 micron filter could be another option. Note that these filters are only for the rinse water - not the cleaning tank, and they need a pump with pressure.
Additionally, in the video which showed the internals I could see a large pump suction side strainer. Degritter appears to have done their homework.
Take care,
Neil
Thanks Neil. Not unlike my house's Reverse Osmosis filtration.
Extending the life of the less than 3 gallons of distilled water in my rinse tank becomes a cost-benefit question. Yes, I can have a better pump and an absolute filter for rinsing vs $3 for a water change.
With your house RO system, it's easy to add a deionizer/demineralizer to produce good purity DIW that can easily exceed what you are buying. These come in various configurations, the ones using standard 10" cartridges are the most flexible since there are many cartridges from various manufacturers that all fit the standard 10" filter housing - https://assets.freshwatersystems.com/image/upload/s--Go_ElWrH--/kurtlxvtqa8nuekeac33.pdf. How much DIW they will produce is based on the input TDS.
To my knowledge and as a past owner, the AudioDesk Systeme had/has a single ultrasonic transducer. It is not solely brushes.
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Yes, even with a single transducer, I agree. The virtue I see in the AD is that it was a first pioneering effort that introduced the idea of the one button single slot RCM and it became a target benchmark for others to improve upon.
Someone shared a video with me that shows the new-DG unit with the top cover off. The roller brushes are mounted horizontally and appears to be above the UT tank and are vertically retractable - so they are either position to brush the or record or pulled back. So, the brush will work with a thin film of fluid that is coating the record as it rotates out of the UT bath. If this is correct, not sure how they plan on managing the cleanliness of the brushes.
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