Is there a point of diminishing return with regards to platter mass? I understand that such point does exist with designs that has bearing, but does such point exist in air bearing designs? As one goes up the product line, platter mass increases. Micro air bearing models have platter mass that goes up from 16kg (5000 air) to 28kg (SX8000). TechDas from 6.7kg (AF5) to 19kg (AF1) to 100kg+ (AF0). American Sound at around 68kg while Vyger is at 16kg.
Platter mass diminishing return
- Thread starter leyenda
- Start date
There are also the issues of motor and type of connection. How do you get a massive platter up to speed? Internal resonances? Too lively, too damped? Material? Lots of issues that go along with different mass. Also shape and how the weight is distributed. Finally, how practical is it to manufacture and install. Great topic and I would love to hear from the designers, but I suspect they all have their reasons and will likely not share them.
Here is a quote from Horning Hybrids description of their Sati turntable.
"In the development of the Sati record player we stated out with different platters with different weight going from 10 kg to 25 kg weight and ended up with 50 kg. The sound performance from 10 to 25 kg was easy to hear and the absolute version stopped with the 50 kg version we tested also a 75 kg version sound quality but it did not made any improvement over the 50 kg we went up with."
horninghybridsystems.com
One manufacturers claim anyway. 
"In the development of the Sati record player we stated out with different platters with different weight going from 10 kg to 25 kg weight and ended up with 50 kg. The sound performance from 10 to 25 kg was easy to hear and the absolute version stopped with the 50 kg version we tested also a 75 kg version sound quality but it did not made any improvement over the 50 kg we went up with."
Sati Turntable - Hørning Hybrid Systems
SATI TRANSFERRENS ULTIMATE ABSOLUTELY SPEED PRECISION AND ABSOLUTELY GROUND Why is the turntable industry not using this logical method? to hear their record players sound compared to the Vinyl’s original reel to reel Master tape recording. This paper will only bring some light on different...
horninghybridsystems.com
Here is a quote from Horning Hybrids description of their Sati turntable.
"In the development of the Sati record player we stated out with different platters with different weight going from 10 kg to 25 kg weight and ended up with 50 kg. The sound performance from 10 to 25 kg was easy to hear and the absolute version stopped with the 50 kg version we tested also a 75 kg version sound quality but it did not made any improvement over the 50 kg we went up with."
One manufacturers claim anyway.Sati Turntable - Hørning Hybrid Systems
SATI TRANSFERRENS ULTIMATE ABSOLUTELY SPEED PRECISION AND ABSOLUTELY GROUND Why is the turntable industry not using this logical method? to hear their record players sound compared to the Vinyl’s original reel to reel Master tape recording. This paper will only bring some light on different...
Milan, thank you for posting that link. It was an interesting read. One of the claims in the article caught my attention.
“The Sati with massive GROUNDED bearing design went deeper in the bas, had much more body and all decays been easier to hear. All the Exotic bearings design just sounded THINNER, lighter and brighter.”
I directly compared the American Sound AS1000 to The Absolute Nothing turntable. The former had better weight, body and mass than any turntable I had heard before, and the ladder improved on those qualities by quite a bit. I’m not sure I would describe the bearing as exotic, but it is not grounded in the sense that the Sati turntable is. In other words, my experience has been just the opposite of what is written in that quote. There are many factors at play, but one of them is the platter mass.
There is an ease, a rightness, and an impressive amount of information in these American turntables. There is a very low noise floor. I think a large part of that is not having a grounded bearing with contact.
It just shows that there are successful different approaches to the problem. Anyway, thanks again for posting the link to the interesting article.
I have not heard the Sati. The best sounding turntables i have heard where air-bearing and maybe the limitations of the "grounded" bearing is why he prefers a 50 kg platter. To bad Bill is no longer posting here, he had both a VYGER and a Sati, his opinion would have been interesting.
I have not heard the Sati. The best sounding turntables i have heard where air-bearing and maybe the limitations of the "grounded" bearing is why he prefers a 50 kg platter. To bad Bill is no longer posting here, he had both a VYGER and a Sati, his opinion would have been interesting.
I suspect with a conventional loaded bearing, one reaches a point where platter mass starts to become a problem with noise and friction. Then you have to try to figure out how to damp the vibrations, and that may cause other problems for the sound.
Yes, audio file. Bill was a wonderful contributor to the forum. I hope he is doing well.
About platter weight and grounded vs airbearing, I think we can learn something from the Kuzma XL DC Air airbearing vs the non-airbearing version. In addition to the airbearing, the Air model also has a 44kg platter vs the 22kg one in the non airbearing version.
While I didn’t have the chance to audition the two versions side by side, I had the chance to audition the Kuzma XL DC Air in the recent Munich show, pairing with the Safir tonearm and Car 60 cartridge. My friend had the XL DC non-air, also with the Safir but matched with the Audio Technica AT MC2022.
Yes, other than the TTs in question and the pairing tonearm, everything else in the two systems was different. However, my impression was that the Air version had a considerably blacker background, and the flow of the music was much better. Of course, I can’t say how much of the difference was from the TT, but there is no doubt in my mind the Air is a better TT, at least to my ears!
While I didn’t have the chance to audition the two versions side by side, I had the chance to audition the Kuzma XL DC Air in the recent Munich show, pairing with the Safir tonearm and Car 60 cartridge. My friend had the XL DC non-air, also with the Safir but matched with the Audio Technica AT MC2022.
Yes, other than the TTs in question and the pairing tonearm, everything else in the two systems was different. However, my impression was that the Air version had a considerably blacker background, and the flow of the music was much better. Of course, I can’t say how much of the difference was from the TT, but there is no doubt in my mind the Air is a better TT, at least to my ears!
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I have not heard the Sati. The best sounding turntables i have heard where air-bearing and maybe the limitations of the "grounded" bearing is why he prefers a 50 kg platter. To bad Bill is no longer posting here, he had both a VYGER and a Sati, his opinion would have been interesting.
The vyger is sonically in much higher leagues compared to Sati.
I did this when upgraded the XL DC to XL Air.
thanks, great read. particularly like the part where the platter is spun by hand to the correct speed then needle drop. will try this exercise, it will be a good test of motor and string effect.
I read Horning Hybrid’s approach from the link you shared. It’s strange that Verdier is left out under magnetically levitated platters and same goes for Micro Seiki under air bearings.Here is a quote from Horning Hybrids description of their Sati turntable.
"In the development of the Sati record player we stated out with different platters with different weight going from 10 kg to 25 kg weight and ended up with 50 kg. The sound performance from 10 to 25 kg was easy to hear and the absolute version stopped with the 50 kg version we tested also a 75 kg version sound quality but it did not made any improvement over the 50 kg we went up with."
One manufacturers claim anyway.Sati Turntable - Hørning Hybrid Systems
SATI TRANSFERRENS ULTIMATE ABSOLUTELY SPEED PRECISION AND ABSOLUTELY GROUND Why is the turntable industry not using this logical method? to hear their record players sound compared to the Vinyl’s original reel to reel Master tape recording. This paper will only bring some light on different...
And plenty of bad spelling in the piece too, he is not the ultimate expert on everything
But he presents his experience with platter weight and his TT is regarded positively.That was a great report, especially the story described in the first paragraph. I know what you mean by a sense of "calmness". I get this too from a high mass platter on air, and it increases even more with more mass and less motor influence.
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