The Tape Project, the "High End" and you.

[Fast/Forward]

How has the Tape Project affected your perception of the “high end” and how did it’s influence alter your direction in matters regarding your format of choice if is not open reel tape?
The influence of the Tape Project has definitely left a wake in the audio world. High end gear is now demo’d with these tapes and other companies refer to “master tapes” in ads. At the consumer end there was the rise in cost for compatible used reel decks and reel tapes.
For myself it seemed like a wet dream came true! Great art, real time duplications with SOTA electronics and materials made by people who care. There is a high cost of entry, particularly if you were not into the reel to reel scene and needed to acquire a reel deck (sometimes only to be used as a transport) and play back electronics.
I see this as being similar to the CD/SACD/DVD-A crowd who spend small fortunes on the latest digital electronic hardware or turntables that can cost from a small car to a luxury vehicle though less individually on their software.
ie. I’ve read here on WTB that Steve Williams chose a reel tape deck instead of a turntable.
This thread is by no means limited to Tape Project subscribers.

 

[flez007]

I am not sure if "affected" is the right word here, it is true that tapes deliver the best of music reproduction among other sources (considering all are at the same level of craftsmanship), at least in my experience. Taking this route is by no means a binary decision, but just adding another option of what the true intention of this hobby pursue, listening pleasure of an artistic performance, so, "enlightened" would be a more appropriate word, at least for me.

 

[Steve williams]

I’ve read here on WTB that Steve Williams chose a reel tape deck instead of a turntable.

Indeed I did. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't own a TT but in the thread started by mep on Pecking Order most people still put R2R #1 although member Mike Lavigne here is now lauding the virtues of his new Wave Kinetics NVS TT and Telos arm as being superior to tape. I can't attest to that but Mike has a keen ear

BTW there is a guy in your neck of the woods who refurbishes Studer R2R and they are top notch

As for the cost of subscription to Tape Project, it is what it is. Have a look at the cost of tape and take into consideration licensing fees and then mastering costs plus a little profit for Paul, Dan and Romo because you're getting the best of the best. Even some of the tapes whose genre I am not a fan, are played by me to friends as examples of amazing sound

 

[Steve williams]

If you buy a machine, be certain to do so from a reliable source and I am sure most of us here would recommend a pro deck

 

[NorthStar]

Few simple questions for the experts ...

Is Open Real-to-Real Tape the best audio analog medium?

Or is it the analog Turntable?

Is Analog more faithful than Digital?

Is there a future in Digital?

And about digital musical files from your PC? ... Analog musical files?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Indeed I did. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't own a TT but in the thread started by mep on Pecking Order most people still put R2R #1 although member Mike Lavigne here is now lauding the virtues of his new Wave Kinetics NVS TT and Telos arm as being superior to tape. I can't attest to that but Mike has a keen ear

Steve,

what i intended to say on this subject is that at this point with the NVS tt and Durand Telos tonearm i have many Lps sounding equal to 15ips 1/4" master dubs. and we are talking here about the best sounding Lps. some of the best Lps are a little better than the tape, and some tapes are a little better than the Lps.

of course; i have maybe 70-80 15ips 1/4" master dubs, and 10,000 Lps; of which a few thousand would be in the 'best sounding Lp' realm.

there are two wild cards in this deck; i now have a few very good 1/2" tapes (which are better than 1/4"), and today i got a new phono cartridge, the Ortofon Anna, to replace my A90. we'll see whether the 'pecking order' changes over time.

i just wanted to clarify that i'm not saying Lps are clearly better than 15ips tape; but they can be in that same performance area if one works at it hard enough.

reality check---great tape deck plus 4-5 Tape Project tapes---$5000-$7000 total investment.
---tt/arm/cart/phono stage good enough to compete on par with tape---$50k--$60k+++...and even then it would have to be wisely spent.

BTW there is a guy in your neck of the woods who refurbishes Studer R2R and they are top notch

As for the cost of subscription to Tape Project, it is what it is. Have a look at the cost of tape and take into consideration licensing fees and then mastering costs plus a little profit for Paul, Dan and Romo because you're getting the best of the best. Even some of the tapes whose genre I am not a fan, are played by me to friends as examples of amazing sound

if you want the best possible sonic performance without spending many tens of thousands of dollars, then a nice RTR deck and Tape Project tapes is the least expensive way to do it. good luck.

 

[jeromelang]

if you want the best possible sonic performance without spending many tens of thousands of dollars, then a nice RTR deck and Tape Project tapes is the least expensive way to do it. good luck.

Does anybody has experience with a tascam BR20?
Are the transport, playback heads, and analog outputs good enough to make it worthwhile ordering tapes from TTP?

 

[microstrip]

(...)
reality check---great tape deck plus 4-5 Tape Project tapes---$5000-$7000 total investment.
---tt/arm/cart/phono stage good enough to compete on par with tape---$50k--$60k+++...and even then it would have to be wisely spent.

if you want the best possible sonic performance without spending many tens of thousands of dollars, then a nice RTR deck and Tape Project tapes is the least expensive way to do it. good luck.

Mike,

Did you listen to any of the 70k plus CD players in your system? I hate to admit it, but my short exposition to two of them (the DCS Scarlatti and the Metronome Kalista) made me understand that CD has greater potential that shown by other very good players in my system.

 

[flez007]

Does anybody has experience with a tascam BR20?
Are the transport, playback heads, and analog outputs good enough to make it worthwhile ordering tapes from TTP?

Jerome - Assuming that the transport electronics, motor and head assembly is in good condition at the Tascam, the path that many have followed is to modify our machines and have them play directly from the output head to an external head preamp, usually the audio electronics of those machines (not just the Tascam ) are just average and will not allow to develop the full potential that the TP tapes (or other great tape recorded providers) deliver.

 

[mep]

Does anybody has experience with a tascam BR20?
Are the transport, playback heads, and analog outputs good enough to make it worthwhile ordering tapes from TTP?

Yes, this is a fine deck assuming it works correctly.

 

[jeromelang]

Jerome - Assuming that the transport electronics, motor and head assembly is in good condition at the Tascam, the path that many have followed is to modify our machines and have them play directly from the output head to an external head preamp, usually the audio electronics of those machines (not just the Tascam ) are just average and will not allow to develop the full potential that the TP tapes (or other great tape recorded providers) deliver.

Any URL links to instructions how I may do as you suggested?

 

[flez007]

This depends on each unit, I am not familiar with anyone who works Tascam decks but I am sure many here could give some advise Jerome. I modified mine with a local technician based on help/instruction/pics from many here at WBF.

 

[mep]

United Audio specializes in rebuilding the Tascam decks.

 

[Fast/Forward]

Thanks everyone for getting past my seemingly self congratulatory opening and feeling you could respond.

My reaction is also part surprise to the growing acceptance of analogue based open reel tape "sound" and for me this seemed highly unlikely from endorsers of both vinyl and and those digital. I expect my reaction to be, of course unique but may be parallel others.

There is no feeling on my part of vindication or triumph because my pet format was chosen as The Tape Project's way of producing recordings of SOTA analogue recordings . I do own digital playback components and enjoy that format in a separate sound system. It was aptly put in another thread by someone else that each format is best enjoyed independently!

My true source of elation is the availability of commercially made real time duplicated open reel tapes being made of source master tapes. I have been into the open reel scene for over three decades now and daydreaming/wishing for just such thing it was almost unreal (no pun
intended)! ;-) Not that much different from someone waiting for all there favorite recordings to be released on the latest in digital high resolution!

My initial interest in sound fidelity started as a kid in the early '60s. It was sparked by the difference in the tube based sound from our family's and our neighbours' televisions and console stereo and how they differed from transistor based components.
It seemed normal to me at that age to believe that tube was truer to the source (or however I interpreted my thoughts at that time), and may have naively assumed everyone felt the same.
Though, from what my ears told me that the next doors' Bert Kaempfert reel sounded better as a source than the same recording played through the same tube based console's speakers from an imported German LP.

The announcement of the upcoming release of TTP reels caused me to abandon a serious effort to upgrade my digital components (with it a commitment to buying premium SACDs and DVD-A discs) and focus my resources on the premium costing tapes and repro.
The loss of sales of some high end digital equipment shouldn't topple the industry but there would be might be less premium digital software and vinyl LPs sold as a result!

I have asked this question on this forum as it's membership seems diverse, from individuals involved in the audio industry each with their own unique experiences and to those like myself at the retirees consumer level.

It was not intended to be a TTP subscriber (I am, and a lower # than you Steve! >emoticon with tongue sticking out here< ;-) only thread nor a pro reel format thread. I am curious about points of view from those who may not be active with open reel but whose personal thinking or position on a reference for sound may have changed and what those changes may be since the introduction of The Tape Project.

One example could be from meeting yesterday a "young audiophile" born and raised on digital, consoled by buying 45 RPM vinyl reissues yet coveting TTP tapes despite never hearing an open reel tape let alone a 15 IPS two track!

Another would be my discovering this forum!