Torlai - Turchese

[MortenB]

I have just bought a cartridge from Roberto Torlai in Italy and thinks his techonogy is very interesting - therefore this thread.

Some of us know Roberto Torlai from his 40 years of experience with cartridge repairs of all sorts, but he is also making his own line of cartridges and that’s what I share here. He has invented a unique suspension system, that he implement in his own cartridges. The benefits of his technology should be a much more free moving of the stylus and cantilever, resulting in:

- Improved dynamics and transient response - due to less restricted movement of stylus and cantilever
- Improved damping - non critical load where cartridge can be run ‘’open’’. He even suggest trying 47.000 ohm
- Improved stylus life - up to twice the amount of playing hours due to less stress on the stylus from the less restricted movement.
- Azimuth can not move over time, so less need for maintenance/adjustments.

Roberto only speaks Italian, and I don’t understand Italian, so the buying process is mails back and forth, and then using google translate. This makes it difficult to understand all details, but there is now an English language review of his Turchese cartridge, including some pictures and descriptions of his suspension technology. Roberto Torlai send it to me, and I found his innovations impressive and interesting. He mentioned to me, that the pictures and explanations only show hints of his technology. For instance the pivotal point in his cartridges are much closer to the ideal in the center of the coil, than shown in the attached drawing, and that several critical processes are not mentioned.

The pictures are from the English review he send me. Notice the doughnut shaped black suspension. Between the coil former and the black suspension there is a tiny metal ring. You can see a bit of it almost buried into the black damper.

The cartridge I have bought is referred to as: Torlai Spectral Turchese, meaning it’s based on an old Spectral Audio - Reference. Specs as follows:

Magnet system and house: Spectral Audio - Reference
Coil former and coil: Supex
Cantilever and stylys: Ogura boron cantilever with Ogura PH stylus.
Suspension system: Torlai unique technology
Generator impedance: 2 ohm
Output: 0,2mV
Compliance is for medium to heavy arms.

My cartridge should arrive tomorrow, and I’ll get back with pictures and impressions when I have it set up on my Acoustical Systems tonearm.

 

[mtemur]

Thanks for sharing and explaining the Torlai procedure. I checked the pictures you shared, and in my humble opinion:

There is a clearly visible metal disc between the coils and the damper. In that case, one thing is absolutely certain: the pivot point does not move toward the coils. There cannot be any slack between the coils, the metal disc, and the damper because the suspension wire is fixed during manufacturing to ensure the coils apply a specific pressure on the damper. That’s why the pivot point will always be farther back, toward the damper, compared to regular designs without a metal disc. Because metal disk inevitably coupled to coils.

The second flaw of the Torlai procedure is the added mass of the metal disc. Since it is impossible to decouple the coils from the metal disc—both being rigid, non-elastic objects subjected to pressure—they will move together. This significantly increases the moving mass, where even the small additional mass of extra coil windings is critical. This is evident in the difference between a 3-ohm cartridge and a 30-ohm cartridge, for example.

If the Torlai procedure attempts to decouple the coils from the metal disc by releasing the pressure, then it introduces another flawed solution to fix a problem that never existed in the first place.

 

[MortenB]

We can all do our analysis, conclude the design genious, or full of flaws, but only the designer knows what’s actually going on…

The metal is a ring btw, not a disc. It’s shown on another picture in the review.

As mentioned, according to Roberto Torlai, the pictures only give some indication of his design, for instance it’s not disclosed how the pivot point is very close to the ideal position in the center of the coil.

He has 40 years experience with cartridges, and before this one I have bought 3 cartridges from him (not with his innovation on the suspension), and had him repair one of my cartridges. Always excellent work, and very honest communication, so I trust him enough to having bought one of his cartridges with his technology.

The cartridge just arrived, so I will know shortly how it performs. I have two tonearms on my spinner and both a Lyra - Etna and and EMT - JSD Platinum to compare with. I trust what I hear, also if it’s as flawed as your analysis suggest, and I’ll give my honest opinion on the cartridge.

 

[MortenB]

Here are a few pics… Old dogs like me recognize the Spectral Audio - Reference ‘’base’’ (magnet system and house) he used to build the cartridge on. It also came in the original Spectral Audio packaging. As seen I paid 2.500 euro for it as a demo, retail is 4.200 euros.

On the close up the thin blade like profile of the Ogura PH stylus is clearly visible.

 

[MortenB]

Busy week, so most likely I will not get the time to set-up the cartridge before the weekend. This gave me the opportunity for a few more macro shots yesterday. I find it fascinating how things we can barely see with the naked eye comes to life under macro.

This is the same picture, one just cropped.

As I understand it the ‘’PH’’ stylus profile with it’s thin blade like shape is the best (lowest mass) and most expensive Ogura offers. We often see a more square shape stylus, as I understand it, that is the ‘’PA’’ shape. Simpler to make, heavier and cheaper.

 

[MortenB]

The Turchese is up and running in my AS - Aquilar tonearm. First a bit on loading:

I was courious to learn how it reacts to loading, now Roberto Torlai mention I can give it a try with anything from 100ohm to 47.000ohm. So far I have just done the set-up and a short listen, where I tried loads from 100 ohm and 1000 ohm.

My experience with most MC cartridges is, that they get ‘’peaky’’ and bright in the treble, when opening the load beyond a certain point (higher value resistor). Then when we load a bit harder from there (lower value resistor) we have found the sweetspot for that particular cartridge.

This cartridge does not behave like that. With TR’s unique technology there is no hardness, no treble lift, no peaky treble or anything like that - no matter what loading is used.

Loading works like an ‘’expansion function’’ of sort. With 100 ohm the sound is meaty, full and the soundstage is slightly compact. With 1000 ohm it’s open, expansive, and lively, but no hardness. For now I settled on 500 ohm = 250 times the 2 ohm generator impedance.

So far, so true from the designer. It performs exactly has he mentioned it would, and it clearly seems he is designing his cartridges / technology for a very open load. Will be interesting to try 47.000 ohm..!

In this way it’s quite similar to my Lyra - Etna, that’s also designed for running quite ‘’open’’ on the load. I have mine loaded at 800 ohm.

The only slightly annoying thing so far is the cantilever way in under the body of the cartridge making it a bit more difficult to lower it precisely. I’m used to cartridge with the cantilever sticking out in the front.

More to come, when I get to compare the TR - Turchese with my Lyra - Etna, running on The Wand - Master Series 12” arm.

 

[No Regrets]

The Turchese is up and running in my AS - Aquilar tonearm. First a bit on loading:

I was courious to learn how it reacts to loading, now Roberto Torlai mention I can give it a try with anything from 100ohm to 47.000ohm. So far I have just done the set-up and a short listen, where I tried loads from 100 ohm and 1000 ohm.

My experience with most MC cartridges is, that they get ‘’peaky’’ and bright in the treble, when opening the load beyond a certain point (higher value resistor). Then when we load a bit harder from there (lower value resistor) we have found the sweetspot for that particular cartridge.

This cartridge does not behave like that. With TR’s unique technology there is no hardness, no treble lift, no peaky treble or anything like that - no matter what loading is used.

Loading works like an ‘’expansion function’’ of sort. With 100 ohm the sound is meaty, full and the soundstage is slightly compact. With 1000 ohm it’s open, expansive, and lively, but no hardness. For now I settled on 500 ohm = 250 times the 2 ohm generator impedance.

So far, so true from the designer. It performs exactly has he mentioned it would, and it clearly seems he is designing his cartridges / technology for a very open load. Will be interesting to try 47.000 ohm..!

In this way it’s quite similar to my Lyra - Etna, that’s also designed for running quite ‘’open’’ on the load. I have mine loaded at 800 ohm.

The only slightly annoying thing so far is the cantilever way in under the body of the cartridge making it a bit more difficult to lower it precisely. I’m used to cartridge with the cantilever sticking out in the front.

More to come, when I get to compare the TR - Turchese with my Lyra - Etna, running on The Wand - Master Series 12” arm.

Just wanted to pop in quick and say... nice turntable
Best wishes,
Don