Torlai - Turchese

[MortenB]

I have just bought a cartridge from Roberto Torlai in Italy and thinks his techonogy is very interesting - therefore this thread.

Some of us know Roberto Torlai from his 40 years of experience with cartridge repairs of all sorts, but he is also making his own line of cartridges and that’s what I share here. He has invented a unique suspension system, that he implement in his own cartridges. The benefits of his technology should be a much more free moving of the stylus and cantilever, resulting in:

- Improved dynamics and transient response - due to less restricted movement of stylus and cantilever
- Improved damping - non critical load where cartridge can be run ‘’open’’. He even suggest trying 47.000 ohm
- Improved stylus life - up to twice the amount of playing hours due to less stress on the stylus from the less restricted movement.
- Azimuth can not move over time, so less need for maintenance/adjustments.

Roberto only speaks Italian, and I don’t understand Italian, so the buying process is mails back and forth, and then using google translate. This makes it difficult to understand all details, but there is now an English language review of his Turchese cartridge, including some pictures and descriptions of his suspension technology. Roberto Torlai send it to me, and I found his innovations impressive and interesting. He mentioned to me, that the pictures and explanations only show hints of his technology. For instance the pivotal point in his cartridges are much closer to the ideal in the center of the coil, than shown in the attached drawing, and that several critical processes are not mentioned.

The pictures are from the English review he send me. Notice the doughnut shaped black suspension. Between the coil former and the black suspension there is a tiny metal ring. You can see a bit of it almost buried into the black damper.

The cartridge I have bought is referred to as: Torlai Spectral Turchese, meaning it’s based on an old Spectral Audio - Reference. Specs as follows:

Magnet system and house: Spectral Audio - Reference
Coil former and coil: Supex
Cantilever and stylys: Ogura boron cantilever with Ogura PH stylus.
Suspension system: Torlai unique technology
Generator impedance: 2 ohm
Output: 0,2mV
Compliance is for medium to heavy arms.

My cartridge should arrive tomorrow, and I’ll get back with pictures and impressions when I have it set up on my Acoustical Systems tonearm.

 

[mtemur]

Thanks for sharing and explaining the Torlai procedure. I checked the pictures you shared, and in my humble opinion:

There is a clearly visible metal disc between the coils and the damper. In that case, one thing is absolutely certain: the pivot point does not move toward the coils. There cannot be any slack between the coils, the metal disc, and the damper because the suspension wire is fixed during manufacturing to ensure the coils apply a specific pressure on the damper. That’s why the pivot point will always be farther back, toward the damper, compared to regular designs without a metal disc. Because metal disk inevitably coupled to coils.

The second flaw of the Torlai procedure is the added mass of the metal disc. Since it is impossible to decouple the coils from the metal disc—both being rigid, non-elastic objects subjected to pressure—they will move together. This significantly increases the moving mass, where even the small additional mass of extra coil windings is critical. This is evident in the difference between a 3-ohm cartridge and a 30-ohm cartridge, for example.

If the Torlai procedure attempts to decouple the coils from the metal disc by releasing the pressure, then it introduces another flawed solution to fix a problem that never existed in the first place.

 

[MortenB]

We can all do our analysis, conclude the design genious, or full of flaws, but only the designer knows what’s actually going on…

The metal is a ring btw, not a disc. It’s shown on another picture in the review.

As mentioned, according to Roberto Torlai, the pictures only give some indication of his design, for instance it’s not disclosed how the pivot point is very close to the ideal position in the center of the coil.

He has 40 years experience with cartridges, and before this one I have bought 3 cartridges from him (not with his innovation on the suspension), and had him repair one of my cartridges. Always excellent work, and very honest communication, so I trust him enough to having bought one of his cartridges with his technology.

The cartridge just arrived, so I will know shortly how it performs. I have two tonearms on my spinner and both a Lyra - Etna and and EMT - JSD Platinum to compare with. I trust what I hear, also if it’s as flawed as your analysis suggest, and I’ll give my honest opinion on the cartridge.

 

[MortenB]

Here are a few pics… Old dogs like me recognize the Spectral Audio - Reference ‘’base’’ (magnet system and house) he used to build the cartridge on. It also came in the original Spectral Audio packaging. As seen I paid 2.500 euro for it as a demo, retail is 4.200 euros.

On the close up the thin blade like profile of the Ogura PH stylus is clearly visible.

 

[MortenB]

Busy week, so most likely I will not get the time to set-up the cartridge before the weekend. This gave me the opportunity for a few more macro shots yesterday. I find it fascinating how things we can barely see with the naked eye comes to life under macro.

This is the same picture, one just cropped.

As I understand it the ‘’PH’’ stylus profile with it’s thin blade like shape is the best (lowest mass) and most expensive Ogura offers. We often see a more square shape stylus, as I understand it, that is the ‘’PA’’ shape. Simpler to make, heavier and cheaper.

 

[MortenB]

The Turchese is up and running in my AS - Aquilar tonearm. First a bit on loading:

I was courious to learn how it reacts to loading, now Roberto Torlai mention I can give it a try with anything from 100ohm to 47.000ohm. So far I have just done the set-up and a short listen, where I tried loads from 100 ohm and 1000 ohm.

My experience with most MC cartridges is, that they get ‘’peaky’’ and bright in the treble, when opening the load beyond a certain point (higher value resistor). Then when we load a bit harder from there (lower value resistor) we have found the sweetspot for that particular cartridge.

This cartridge does not behave like that. With TR’s unique technology there is no hardness, no treble lift, no peaky treble or anything like that - no matter what loading is used.

Loading works like an ‘’expansion function’’ of sort. With 100 ohm the sound is meaty, full and the soundstage is slightly compact. With 1000 ohm it’s open, expansive, and lively, but no hardness. For now I settled on 500 ohm = 250 times the 2 ohm generator impedance.

So far, so true from the designer. It performs exactly has he mentioned it would, and it clearly seems he is designing his cartridges / technology for a very open load. Will be interesting to try 47.000 ohm..!

In this way it’s quite similar to my Lyra - Etna, that’s also designed for running quite ‘’open’’ on the load. I have mine loaded at 800 ohm.

The only slightly annoying thing so far is the cantilever way in under the body of the cartridge making it a bit more difficult to lower it precisely. I’m used to cartridge with the cantilever sticking out in the front.

More to come, when I get to compare the TR - Turchese with my Lyra - Etna, running on The Wand - Master Series 12” arm.

 

[No Regrets]

The Turchese is up and running in my AS - Aquilar tonearm. First a bit on loading:

I was courious to learn how it reacts to loading, now Roberto Torlai mention I can give it a try with anything from 100ohm to 47.000ohm. So far I have just done the set-up and a short listen, where I tried loads from 100 ohm and 1000 ohm.

My experience with most MC cartridges is, that they get ‘’peaky’’ and bright in the treble, when opening the load beyond a certain point (higher value resistor). Then when we load a bit harder from there (lower value resistor) we have found the sweetspot for that particular cartridge.

This cartridge does not behave like that. With TR’s unique technology there is no hardness, no treble lift, no peaky treble or anything like that - no matter what loading is used.

Loading works like an ‘’expansion function’’ of sort. With 100 ohm the sound is meaty, full and the soundstage is slightly compact. With 1000 ohm it’s open, expansive, and lively, but no hardness. For now I settled on 500 ohm = 250 times the 2 ohm generator impedance.

So far, so true from the designer. It performs exactly has he mentioned it would, and it clearly seems he is designing his cartridges / technology for a very open load. Will be interesting to try 47.000 ohm..!

In this way it’s quite similar to my Lyra - Etna, that’s also designed for running quite ‘’open’’ on the load. I have mine loaded at 800 ohm.

The only slightly annoying thing so far is the cantilever way in under the body of the cartridge making it a bit more difficult to lower it precisely. I’m used to cartridge with the cantilever sticking out in the front.

More to come, when I get to compare the TR - Turchese with my Lyra - Etna, running on The Wand - Master Series 12” arm.

Just wanted to pop in quick and say... nice turntable
Best wishes,
Don

 

[MortenB]

Thank you Don. I’ve owned it for almost 6 years, as I was one of the early Sikora owners. I’m still very pleased with it (as you and I have discussed a few times before).

 

[MortenB]

I have done some comparison between the Lyra - Etna on my Wand - Master Series 12” arm, and the Torlai - Turchese on my AS - Aquilar 10” arm. Very interesting.

We can argue, that the Aquilar is a much more expensive arm, and that it’s not a fair comparison, and that’s a fair point. However here in Denmark a Lyra - Etna retails for around 8.500 euro, so it’s twice the retail price of the TR - Turchese… Also I know the sound of the Etna in the Wand arm very well, so it’s a solid reference for me.

The Etna is the fuller sounding cartidge from Lyra, by design, and that’s also what I hear in comparison to the TR - Turchese. The Etna has a fuller and less defined bass, and male voices has more body and are a bit fuller. Very nice…

The TR - Turchese sounds ruler flat to me, but not analytical in any way. What is impressive with this cartridge is, that it’s steps above the Etna when it comes to transparency, image focus and transient response. Listening to records I know extremely well, I hear details I never heard before, a focus and separation in the soundstage I never heard before. A ‘’live feeling’’ on transients that sounds more ‘’right’’ to me… I play the bass in a (not very good) band, so the real sound of drums and percussion is baked into my brain. This cartridge does something very right on transients and decay. For instance I listened to a track where the drummer plays quietly on the rim of the drum. The sound of the stick hitting that metal edge somehow sounds more real. Hard to understand what exactly this cartridge does so well, but to me it sounds more like the drums in the studio with the band, than what I’m used to with either the Lyra - Etna, or the EMT - JSD Platinum.

Something I was thinking while listening is a reference to a top quality system in a very well treated room. In such a room we hear deeper into the music, instrument seperation is amazing, transients come out of nowhere, transparency is high, and our brain relaxes as ‘’noise’’ is gone, it sounds more ‘’real’’. When listening to the TR - Turchese I got to think of that…

Honestly I’m a bit surprised, and impressed.

Not that I did not think this cartridge would be good. There is a reason why Roberto Torlai is respected as one of the best here in Europe, and reviews also indicate his technology really works (that’s why I bought the cartidge). But I’m still surprised this cartridge makes my Etna sound a bit fat, slow and lacking a in transparency. You might argue, that this is exactly how the Etna sounds But before the TR - Turchese it was the best cartrige I own.

For a retail price on 4.200 euro, and up to twice the stylus life because TR’s technology means less stress on the stylus, that seems like a very fair value proposition to me.

For now I have the loading on 300 ohm, I found that to be the best balance. When I go to 500 ohm or 1000 ohm the upper midrange moves a bit forward, and get’s a bit to much. The cartridge had only done 30 hours or so before I got it, so I’ll give it some more break in, and then try 500 ohm and 1000 ohm load again.

 

[MortenB]

Time for an update…

The cartridge has now played around 50 hours, and Roberto Torlai strongly advise to open up the load running the cartridge into 47.000 ohm or even up to 150.000 ohm claiming, that I have not heard what the cartrige is capable off before running it this ‘’open’’.

Yesterday I pulled out the Weller soldering station and installed 47.000 ohm resistors on one of the inputs on my Thöress - Phono Enhancer. I had my doubts, could this really work? 2 ohm generator impedance into 47.000 ohm? Normally there would be treble lift, ringing etc…

I hear NO brightness of any kind when loaded with 47.000 ohm. Nothing.

What I do hear is so crazy that I was sitting there laughing a few times while listening. What ever Roberto Torlai does with the technology in his cartriges, it works. There is a level of transparency, image focus, dynamics, transient response and effortless nature that I have never experienced from any cartridge, especially when running it wide open into 47.000 ohm. It’s like there is a more direct connection between what’s in the grooves, and what comes out of the speakers.

I have had my share of Ortofon, the latest were the MC90 and the Anna (I’m from Denmark), higher end VDH’s, My Sonic Lab, Etsuro Urushi, and now my two other cartridges being the Lyra - Etna and the EMT - JSD Platinum. None of these cartridges does, what this one does, and especially not when the TR - Turchese is run open on load at 47.000 ohm.

Last night I was listening through my Musica Nuda albums and could not stop listening. I heard things on these well known albums, that I have never heard before: Small details in the back of the soundstage, attacks sounding more ‘’real and live’’, improved focus and transparency on voices, and still very natural and effortless, no brightness, nothing aggressive. To finish things off I switched to something totally different with some Massive Attack, and that was a massive attack on the senses for sure: The electronic universe was larger than what I remember, more layered, more details, punchy, and that crazy attack, decay and space…

For me this is one of my more important discoveries in over 40 years with hifi, and a very strong value proposition.