Upgrade advice

[mintakax]

Hello-- I had a pretty high end system that I sold a few years ago. I have recently forced my foot back in the audiophile door, starting with a modest system that I am interested in upgrading in the next few months. Due to space/aesthetic concerns, I am limited to an integrated for an amplifier,
I started with a pre-owned Hegel H390 integrated and a pre-owned pair of Magico speakers (purchased from The Music Room). My listening room is pretty large with a 20' high pitched ceiling,.There is little to no opportunity for room treatment, but I think that the room acoustics are not too bad.
After listing to this system for a month, 1 added a pair of REL S/510 subs which did a great job of augmenting the A3 bass. I've also added an Aurender N200 player ( I have a large library of DSD files on the N200 local SSD drive) and a T+A 200 DAC. The system is sounding pretty good but I would like to upgrade speakers and amp in the next couple of months. I live quite close to The Music Room and prefer to use them if possible. I think I would get decent trade in towards pre-owned amp and speakers and I would not have to deal with shipping (just the darn tax). I have been on the lookout for a pair of pre-owned Magico A5's, but they have not appeared on TMR and I have no sense of whether they will in the next couple of months.

Of the current TMR offerings in my budget range, I am curious about the BAT VK-3500 integrated amp and the pre-owned Dynaudio Confidence 50 speakers. The VK-3500 is a new unit on closeout and the price on the C50s seems reasonable. I have no experience with either BAT Dynaudo. TMR allows for returns of pre-owned equipment, but with a 5% restock fee, so I'd like to approach any purchases with a fair bit of confidence in the choices.

There is a BAT dealer in Denver and a Dynaudio dealer in Boulder, but I dont know what models they have in their showrooms, plus I'm not sure if listening to either separately would help with my decision.
I'd really appreciate any comments, advice or guidance regarding these!

 

[mintakax]

Apologies, perhaps this was too much info. Does anyone have any thoughts on:
Dynaudio C50s compared to Magico A5 & A3?

How about C50s or Magico A5s (or A3s) with BAT VK-3500 ?

 

[Holmz]

Apologies, perhaps this was too much info. Does anyone have any thoughts on:
Dynaudio C50s compared to Magico A5 & A3?

How about C50s or Magico A5s (or A3s) with BAT VK-3500 ?

It seems like you have already decided on what to get.

Hello-- I had a pretty high end system that I sold a few years ago. I have recently forced my foot back in the audiophile door, starting with a modest system that I am interested in upgrading in the next few months. Due to space/aesthetic concerns, I am limited to an integrated for an amplifier,
I started with a pre-owned Hegel H390 integrated and a pre-owned pair of Magico speakers (purchased from The Music Room). My listening room is pretty large with a 20' high pitched ceiling,.There is little to no opportunity for room treatment, but I think that the room acoustics are not too bad.

Maybe you needed something like TDAI-3400 which also does some room correction?
(And I think also a streamer built in??)

After listing to this system for a month, 1 added a pair of REL S/510 subs which did a great job of augmenting the A3 bass. I've also added an Aurender N200 player ( I have a large library of DSD files on the N200 local SSD drive) and a T+A 200 DAC. The system is sounding pretty good but I would like to upgrade speakers and amp in the next couple of months.
…

Getting amps and speakers does not sound like downsizing.
Some of the Class-D mono blocks are pretty small.
It seems like them sitting behind (pr near) a passive speaker, also opens up not have a cable dramas with a stereo amp between the speakers.

I like to have som idea of a plan before starting, rather than just emotionally looking at gear.
Some of this because I see a CJ or Accuphase box, and want it… without thinking whether i need it or not. Same story with a Walsh Ohm speaker.

If you already had an amp, then looking a spekaer that can use it makes sense. Or having a speaker and finding an amp that can drive it makes sense.

It seems like your first thought should be the speaker… and that is fundamentally starts with deciding upon a powered or a passive speaker. And then working back from there.

 

[mintakax]

It seems like you have already decided on what to get.



Maybe you needed something like TDAI-3400 which also does some room correction?
(And I think also a streamer built in??)


Getting amps and speakers does not sound like downsizing.
Some of the Class-D mono blocks are pretty small.
It seems like them sitting behind (pr near) a passive speaker, also opens up not have a cable dramas with a stereo amp between the speakers.

I like to have som idea of a plan before starting, rather than just emotionally looking at gear.
Some of this because I see a CJ or Accuphase box, and want it… without thinking whether i need it or not. Same story with a Walsh Ohm speaker.

If you already had an amp, then looking a spekaer that can use it makes sense. Or having a speaker and finding an amp that can drive it makes sense.

It seems like your first thought should be the speaker… and that is fundamentally starts with deciding upon a powered or a passive speaker. And then working back from there.

Thank you for your reply. Possibly there is some helpful advice there, but I could not get past the condescension.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Thank you for your reply. Possibly there is some helpful advice there, but I could not get past the condescension.

Hmm maybe a cup of mushroom tea and a reread is suggested. Thought there was excellent advice and I did not read any condescension in Holmz post.

 

[mintakax]

Hmm maybe a cup of mushroom tea and a reread is suggested. Thought there was excellent advice and I did not read any condescension in Holmz post.

Actually I read it several times. I sincerely apologize if I misunderstood but statements like these give me pause:

"It seems like you have already decided on what to get."-- Absolutely not the case, not having decided is why I posted in the first place.

"Getting amps and speakers does not sound like downsizing".-- There is nothing in my OP that says or hints at all about downsizing, only that I am space constrained such that an integrated amp is the best solution for me.

"I like to have some idea of a plan before starting, rather than just emotionally looking at gear." -- While this isn't directly suggesting that I don't have a plan or am emotionally looking at gear, that is the way it came across to me.

As I said in initial post, this is not my first mid/high end system. While I may not be as knowledgeable as some, I'm not a brand new at this. I am trying to upgrade my integrated amp and speakers without buying new and if possible use the services of TMR which is local to me. I mentioned a couple of pieces for which I had no familiarity in hopes that someone else did. As I stated, TMR allows returns on pre-owned pieces, but at a cost to me, so before buying/auditioning/returning, I'm trying to do some due diligence by asking this forum.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Actually I read it several times. I sincerely apologize if I misunderstood but statements like these give me pause:

"It seems like you have already decided on what to get."-- Absolutely not the case, not having decided is why I posted in the first place.

"Getting amps and speakers does not sound like downsizing".-- There is nothing in my OP that says or hints at all about downsizing, only that I am space constrained such that an integrated amp is the best solution for me.

"I like to have some idea of a plan before starting, rather than just emotionally looking at gear." -- While this isn't directly suggesting that I don't have a plan or am emotionally looking at gear, that is the way it came across to me.

As I said in initial post, this is not my first mid/high end system. While I may not be as knowledgeable as some, I'm not a brand new at this. I am trying to upgrade my integrated amp and speakers without buying new and if possible use the services of TMR which is local to me. I mentioned a couple of pieces for which I had no familiarity in hopes that someone else did. As I stated, TMR allows returns on pre-owned pieces, but at a cost to me, so before buying/auditioning/returning, I'm trying to do some due diligence by asking this forum.

No I get it. I know the folks over at TMR and they are great to do business with. Now that my mushroom tea is wearing off his response could be taken as a bit snarky...

Both the BAT and the Dynaudio products are very good, however benchmarking against Magico speakers may be a challenge. TMR is in the Denver area so you could see about an audition.

Best of luck.

 

[bRnzBzh]

@minitakax

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where you described what it is about your current system that's dissatisfying you. The more detailed you can be in this regard, the easier it will be for others to make suggestions.

Having said that, if you like the H390 but just want "better sound", have you considered upgrading to the 590? Listen Up! in Denver (brick and mortar and online shop) sometimes lists "open box" Hegel integrateds at a discount and they offer a return policy that, unlike TMR, does not involve a restocking fee. This is how I was able to afford my H390.

 

[mintakax]

No I get it. I know the folks over at TMR and they are great to do business with. Now that my mushroom tea is wearing off his response could be taken as a bit snarky...

Both the BAT and the Dynaudio products are very good, however benchmarking against Magico speakers may be a challenge. TMR is in the Denver area so you could see about an audition.

Best of luck.

Thank you. I live about ten minutes away from TMR and have been there several times. They dont really do auditions, you have to buy the unit and then you have 30 days to return it with a 5% restock fee. Still a great place and the convenience of being able to drop off and pick up items is huge!

 

[mintakax]

@minitakax

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where you described what it is about your current system that's dissatisfying you. The more detailed you can be in this regard, the easier it will be for others to make suggestions.

Having said that, if you like the H390 but just want "better sound", have you considered upgrading to the 590? Listen Up! in Denver (brick and mortar and online shop) sometimes lists "open box" Hegel integrateds at a discount and they offer a return policy that, unlike TMR, does not involve a restocking fee. This is how I was able to afford my H390.

Thank you!
Dissatisfied is the not the word I would use. Initially, when I started this system, I wanted to buy Magico A5s, but there were no pre-owned available. I was hoping that a pair would show up on TMR within the 30 day return period, but I learned that lesson .That said, the A3s sound pretty darn good, and I suspect the A5s would provide a richer, fuller sonic field in my large room. (My previous system was B&W 802 D3s driven by a MacIntosh 452.) If I had to live with my current setup I would not be disappointed, but to be honest I am looking for a "bump up" or "better sound" as you say.

The H390 is a fine integrated, but I am not using either the streamer or the DAC, and feel like money is wasted when the equipment has redundant or unused capabilities, so the integrated I've been looking at have just been pre amp/amp. I thought that a bump up in speakers might benefit from a bump up in the amp, but perhaps not? I would upgrade the speakers first for sure and then see.

Funny you mention Listen Up, I've lived in Boulder for 40 years and dont even want to think about how much business I've given them during that time, I recently purchased a demo Aurender N200 from the Boulder store. They are great in providing home auditions and as you say, they have quite a reasonable return and upgrade policy.

 

[Holmz]

Thank you for your reply. Possibly there is some helpful advice there, but I could not get past the condescension.

The Japanese have a phrase called “self hate”… (from what I understand.)

If there was some condescension, it is likely due to the fact that it is easy to make emotional decisions on equipment.
It is somewhat easier to start with and amp or with a speaker, as then it is just finding what is compatible with it

Hmm maybe a cup of mushroom tea and a reread is suggested. Thought there was excellent advice and I did not read any condescension in Holmz post.

Please provide the link where I order that tea online?

Actually I read it several times. I sincerely apologize if I misunderstood but statements like these give me pause:

"It seems like you have already decided on what to get."-- Absolutely not the case, not having decided is why I posted in the first place.

"Getting amps and speakers does not sound like downsizing".-- There is nothing in my OP that says or hints at all about downsizing, only that I am space constrained such that an integrated amp is the best solution for me.

Well that may have been me projecting. And sometimes I can be blunt.

“Space limited” is what we are here… which sort of implies down sizing from things that are massive, or from the idea of massive boxes.

"I like to have some idea of a plan before starting, rather than just emotionally looking at gear." -- While this isn't directly suggesting that I don't have a plan or am emotionally looking at gear, that is the way it came across to me.

Again it may be some projection on my part.
And I doubt I am alone in that.
It is easy to make a decision and find a post hoc rationalisation as to why it was the right choice.
(Often - I just like the looks of the equipment or the brand name)

As I said in initial post, this is not my first mid/high end system. While I may not be as knowledgeable as some, I'm not a brand new at this.

Yeah - all good.
I am not expert either, so you get what you pay for from me.
However the system includes the room.
In order of importance it is speakers/room, then electronics (IMO).
If the room is not changeable then the speaker choice can become more important.
An amp might do a little bit of a change, but not a lot.

I am trying to upgrade my integrated amp and speakers without buying new and if possible use the services of TMR which is local to me. I mentioned a couple of pieces for which I had no familiarity in hopes that someone else did. As I stated, TMR allows returns on pre-owned pieces, but at a cost to me, so before buying/auditioning/returning, I'm trying to do some due diligence by asking this forum.

I was looking hard at a Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 as an integrated amp.
(Basically to get some room correction as the room is not “dedicated”)

It did seem like it is either an integrated or mono block amps.
A stereo amp, or an integrated amp, both need to site between the speakers.

Mono blocks allow one to put the amp at the speakers, and then put the source stuff anywhere in the room.
And the speaker cables become shorter which seldom seems like a bad idea.

For HT that is not really an issue as a center channel speaker needs to sit under the TV which is usually between the speakers anyhow.
I have run class-D amps from $70, as well as stereo and mono blocks tube amps, and stereo and mono block SS amps, and they were a bit high priced than $70.
Compared to the speakers the amps are generally easy.

I think you either stick with the speakers or upgrade them.
(I have no idea on Magico speakers, but I think that they are supposed to be good??)

While the room might be good, or good enough, the Lyngdorf RoomPerfect or Trinov type correction stuff could provide some help.
( I dunno if it is needed or not in your room, but the AVP I have seems to sound good with RoomPerfect.)
A preamp with room correction and some mono blocks could be worth a listen to.

There is no crime in having a few plants and the usual domestic stuff dampening out the room.
The more clutter the better… to an extent.

 

[mintakax]

Thank you for the reply Holmz-- no hard feelings here. I agree that speakers should be first and that was always my plan. I also agree that an amp may not do much , however it has been my past experience that preamps can make a large difference. Since I am only considering integrateds, this does become pertinent.

As for digital front ends, the SQ improvements resulting from the recent addition of the N200 and T+A DAC were quite obvious. I bought them when my wife was out of town and since they are not visible in their well-ventilated cabinet, she doesn't know they exist. When she returned she commented on how good the music sounded and this was a first!

I've never considered hi-fi to be a hobby. I do not enjoy buying equipment, and at this point I don't care what it looks like (Hegel and Magico are not attractive pieces).
I do greatly enjoy listening to music, reproduced in the best manner that I can put together. I spent a lot of time and research putting my previous system together, home auditioning as many pieces as I could. When it was complete, I stopped lusting after gear, I stopped reading the forums and reviews, I was done with the gear and all audio related social media. Selling that system was a mistake, but I had another stronger passion to finance.

I am hoping to have this current system complete in the next couple of months and that may mean buying new equipment as opposed to pre-owned. Home auditions of speakers is a pain for new equipment and very expensive/risky for pre-owned. I'm not approaching this willy-nilly just to have new gear and I'm confident that I will know when I've done the best I can.

As for room correction, I've had it for years in my 7.2 theater room audio system, but have never used it for 2 channel systems. The Lyngdorf looks interesting, but I already have a streamer and DAC and don't want an integrated that includes them, if possible.

And finally, the room is huge and open with lots of plants, leather furniture and carpeting. I had an audio engineer examine it and he agreed that there was little that could be done as far as treatments go. I don't care if it's acoustically good or bad, because, it is what it is.

 

[mintakax]

Thank you all for your replies, much appreciated.