Why choose?
They are both important. That is why I talk in terms of 'stable accuracy '. Low noise is also important.
Quiet Stable Accuracy.
Belt Drive vs Direct Drive and which one?
- Thread starter skinnyfla
- Start date
Why choose?
They are both important. That is why I talk in terms of 'stable accuracy '. Low noise is also important.
Quiet Stable Accuracy.
The only belt drive that I personally have heard that Woukd make me not buy a DD TT is the Kronos Pro LE with the super capacitor power supply. Every system I ever heard it in was sounding very special with analog.
honestly I don't have a strong experience at that price range. so I can only relate where my actual experience does have some useful relevance.
assuming you are sticking with a new turntable, then as I mentioned before, the CS Port TAT2M2 does do steady speed of higher price points than maybe most others in that price range. the reason is it does not use any servo, and is high mass string drive with a low pressure, low flow air float platter. so you do get a very grainless and liquid presentation with musical flow that is very involving and immersive. it stands out as 'different' and more refined. still has excellent bass and macrodynamic energy.
the CS Port is all about steady. you can enjoy it after 5 minutes of warm up, but it does take 90 minutes for it to reach thermal equilibrium and sound it's best. then you let it spin all day and it's even better.
other non servo high mass string drive turntables do similar things too, but the CS Port with the low flow, low pressure air float does it in a special way IMHO.
it will bring out the best in high quality arms and cartridges.
there maybe are others that can do these things on your list of candidates, but I personally don't know that. if you investigate feedback on it you will read similar comments. unless listeners are able to actually compare tt's side by side they might assume all tt's can do these things equally. but not really.
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try to listen to a Micro Seiki SX 8000 II in a good system with the right arm and cartridge properly set up. You will then know what is possible from a turntable. It just sounds right and you go right to the music. It is vintage, but you should be able to find one somewhere in Europe. Occasionally they come up for sale at the top end of your price range.
Just a coincidence it runs with maxon dcx motors 48 v dc.
There are two possible ways to minimize control interventions on the motor. you add a large flywhell to it. or you can set the motor to constant load operation.
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Thank you , I am sorry. I have neither the skills nor patience to mate that to this. They just have to remain another footnote to history albeit possibly the best sounding of all when it is working-which is not often.. But I digress as this is far from the original question so shall not comment further. Apologies for polluting and again Thank You.
Hmmm ... I don't understand this broad pronouncment. Unless you see wow & flutter almost entirely as a symptom of increased vibration/resonance rather than a symptom of unsteady speed. Extraordinarily high correction rates (multiple thousands of times per second) are less aggressive not more because they are effectively constant. Imo, the advantage of stable accuracy go beyond low wow & flutter numbers.
This describes my turntable. There is. 10 lbs flywheel on the drive pulley, and the motor sees a constant load which is user adjustable. One can adjust the string tension and then the load to arrive at what sounds best.
OfftopicThank you , I am sorry. I have neither the skills nor patience to mate that to this. They just have to remain another footnote to history albeit possibly the best sounding of all when it is working-which is not often.. But I digress as this is far from the original question so shall not comment further. Apologies for polluting and again Thank You.
Oh dear, I know the motor and it would be offered as a replacement motor for the E 50 Berger engine (TD 124). should be the best motor unfortunately it isn't. here if you are looking for asycron motors 230volt.
Upgrade Motors
Brushless motor, Singlechip control Voltage: 100V-240V 50/60Hz, voltage self-adaptable Speed and currency bi-closecurcuit design, ultra stable movement Speed wiggle <0.01%...
jarettacoustics.weebly.com
Not sure I buy the constant correction argument. It’s a bit like the claim that if you can just use enough negative feedback it magically cleans itself up and you get perfect sound. The argument that using higher amounts of the thing that causes the problem will solve the problem seems to me not to be logical. Putseys from N-core and Purifi claims this for his amps and now you have made that argument for TTs (Grand Prix audio’s argument for their speed correction?).
Hi,Think bigger 40lbs at 800rpm
Very impressive fly wheel indeed. I suppose the precision of the fly wheel have to be the possible most accurate as it has to be the rotation balance otherwise shall introduce unbalanced waves to the play back sound.
I suppose the system is working well, therefore congratulation for implementing it.
Rgds
Adelmo
Thanks, platter bearing and flywheel was a final thesis by mechanical engineering students who put a lot of effort into it.
sometimes you have luck in life to know the right people
... thanks - the CS Port really seems like it`s worth getting into - but I don`t like the TAT2s design, so if, I would try and stretch towards the TAT1 - which again has some of that classic Micro Seiki look for me... Netherlands is close (no distribution/retail in Germany), so I might hop over.
... one thing seems certain, that is that there is no "one/absolute" answer ;-)
Thinking that Brinkmann (I have been happy with the LaGrange for 8 years - so I can`t say anything negative) has been developing TTs for 30+ years and still refuses to use electronic correction to get best possible measurements, because he obviously thinks that the negative impact of electronic speed correction at the platter is more harmful to the sound than having not so good measurements vs. speed accuracy as the holy grail leaves a big delta for alternative views... also a question of what is actually "audible" especially when yout don`t actually "know" or have TTs playing in direct comparison... anyways, it`s all interesting and great getting all the input here.
Enjoy music - salute!
fair enough, but 'in person' the earthy 'zen' factor might grab you. if you get to hear it.
and our ears sometimes overcome our eyes. we 'see' things in a new light.
can't argue, it's what i own.
it will be worth your time.
for sure. and hope you find your tt muse.
thank you.
It’s actually more than analogy, both are forms of feedback to “correct” an errant signal. The question in both cases audibility of the effect of the correction being applied. If we both agree that the speed the record is being played is literally half of the encoded information, then you are introducing constant fluctuations in pitch on the microsecond time scale…a form of analog jitter. Since digital jitter seems to be audible down to at least the nanosecond scale and also affects pitch and timing, do we think microsecond scale fluctuations are audible in analog? I would argue that the answer is at least possibly and more likely than not.
why servo sucks....
In order to pick up sound accurately from the analog disc, the rotation of the platter must be rotated at a constant speed without any “fluctuation”. In general, accurate rotation is obtained by servo control by negative feedback, but at the micro level, if it rotates or becomes faster, it detects it and slows it, and repeats the operation to make it faster if it gets slower. Although this level and cycle are determined by the gain of the control system and the loop speed, the period of the speed control of the platter which is the mechanical system surely comes into the audio band. In general, accurate rotation is obtained by servo control by negative feedback, but at the micro level, if it rotates or becomes faster, it detects it and slows it, and repeats the operation to make it faster if it gets slower. If you try to measure a period with a small level, you can not measure the instantaneous state, so you measure the average value. Therefore, fine vibration generated by servo control can not be measured by the measuring instrument, it depends on the human ear.
the above is my own translation from Jinglish some info that was on the CS Port website 4 years ago. later they removed it. while i'm not claiming that this issue is that simple. or that non servo is the only way to go (two of my three tt's successfully use some sort of speed regulation). but there is some value to keeping in mind the ill effect of servos. and interpretation of our best measurement processes. which is a debatable subject. the alternative of non servo has merit.
musical flow and liquidity are very very valuable commodities in the musical enjoyment equation.
Tim previously rightly chastised me for posting this without attribution.
In order to pick up sound accurately from the analog disc, the rotation of the platter must be rotated at a constant speed without any “fluctuation”. In general, accurate rotation is obtained by servo control by negative feedback, but at the micro level, if it rotates or becomes faster, it detects it and slows it, and repeats the operation to make it faster if it gets slower. Although this level and cycle are determined by the gain of the control system and the loop speed, the period of the speed control of the platter which is the mechanical system surely comes into the audio band. In general, accurate rotation is obtained by servo control by negative feedback, but at the micro level, if it rotates or becomes faster, it detects it and slows it, and repeats the operation to make it faster if it gets slower. If you try to measure a period with a small level, you can not measure the instantaneous state, so you measure the average value. Therefore, fine vibration generated by servo control can not be measured by the measuring instrument, it depends on the human ear.
the above is my own translation from Jinglish some info that was on the CS Port website 4 years ago. later they removed it. while i'm not claiming that this issue is that simple. or that non servo is the only way to go (two of my three tt's successfully use some sort of speed regulation). but there is some value to keeping in mind the ill effect of servos. and interpretation of our best measurement processes. which is a debatable subject. the alternative of non servo has merit.
musical flow and liquidity are very very valuable commodities in the musical enjoyment equation.
Tim previously rightly chastised me for posting this without attribution.
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since you are in Germany, it makes sense to stay with Brinkman, and if you want a linear tracker try the pivoted one from Schroeder first. He might even come and set it up for you two years later, on when you visit him tell him how to set it up.
Germany has a lot of designers. There is no reason to cross the borders, far less the continents unless you are purely curious and want to try everything
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