Ron's Favorite Private Rooms + Systems of All Time

[Al M.]

Hello Peter,

I never stated this this broadly. At one point I posted that I think the overall tonal balance and relative transparency can be discerned from the videos. But I think a month or so ago I retracted even that.

Ron, I agree with your retraction. Having heard your system in person it is obvious to me that the videos bear little resemblance to the actual sound in the room, including in terms of tonal balance, which is quite a bit brighter and more whitish on the videos. And your system is *far* more transparent than a system video can convey.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Now, a few things from Ron’s description strike me as a bit strange.

disagree. seemed Ron made coherent and reasonable points.

In my experience there is a very loose and tenuous correlation between one’s room width and the sound stage width presented by a system in that room.

how so? how many dedicated rooms have you heard that you would consider wide? with large speakers and subwoofers? and how did those work for you?

soundstage width comes from many factors, and actual width is one of them. listening position, near field or far-field, toe-in, acoustical treatment, power grid and amplification headroom, driver type, amplification type, music chosen, signal path purity and set-up precision are all factors. i'm sure Marty checks all those boxes.

have you heard a narrow room with an exceptionally wide soundstage relative to a well setup average size room or large room?

I also find it rather odd that Ron “seriously wonders” if Daryl Wilson has ever heard his own Alex V creation sound as good as it does in Marty’s room. I see no basis for such speculation.

i think Ron has heard many Wilson rooms, maybe dozens, and maybe many dozens....some at shows and private homes. most if not all with the Wilson set-up approach used mirroring what Daryl would do. i know he spent many hours in PK_LA's room (with Alexx V's) demo'ing dacs and servers. if Marty's was dramatically more coherent than any Ron has heard, his perspective that it would surpass other Daryl's set-ups might be right. in any case, claiming that is not crazy. he has a case to make.

Finally, the claim that Marty’s room cannot be overloaded because of the room treatment in the ceiling seems like pure conjecture.

everything we post is subjective and conjecture. we don't deal in the proof game. so what?

and if Marty pushed things and got big bass that was linear and zero apparent distortion Ron's point is not that wild. Marty apparently has excellent acoustical headroom in the bass.

 

[the sound of Tao]

That said, I remembered this from Ron's report and looked up what he has written:

“The closest to live music I have ever heard” is my considered conclusion about jazz, solo instruments and ensembles and, in some ways, classical symphony orchestra, reproduced on the unique vinyl/horn/single-ended triode system of zerostargeneral."

Visit to Zerostargeneral’s Pnoe/Thomas Mayer/VYGER System

“The closest to live music I have ever heard” is my considered conclusion about jazz, solo instruments and ensembles and, in some ways, classical symphony orchestra, reproduced on the unique vinyl/horn/single-ended triode system of zerostargeneral. En route to rendezvous in London with Tinka to...

www.whatsbestforum.com

===

By Ron from another post on the thread -

"I have believed strongly for a couple of years now that musical preference drives loudspeaker selection. If my primary musical genre interests were jazz or jazz plus + classical I would replicate zerostargeneral’s system.

This system is now my top choice for jazz, solo instruments and ensembles, for sure.

I have come to love and to become emotionally connected with the jazz pieces and the classical pieces I like. But my personal musical genre preferences remain primarily vocals and rock/pop. “Girl with guitar” music does not require the incredible speed and instantaneous rise time of this system. I still love what electrostatic speakers and ribbon speakers achieve on vocals."

===

Back to the first post on that thread:

"This system allows instruments to sound detailed and fast in the ways real musical instruments sound when you hear them played live. The apparent speed is astounding, and the dynamics reflect the seemingly instantaneous rise time of extremely sensitive horn loudspeakers. This is the best “jump factor” I have ever experienced.

This natural speed I heard was not the speed that I described previously of certain dynamic driver systems as being “hyper-fast,” which I found to be an unnatural artifact of some kind. Here the speed simply replicates the actual, natural speed of live instruments.

The speed and dynamics and jump-factor of this system sadly cause me to view all conventional lower sensitivity/higher power loudspeaker/amplifier combinations in a dimmer light. No such conventional system I have ever heard — whether dynamic driver, electrostatic or ribbon — can match the lightness on its feet and utterly explosive sound-recreating effect of this system. This speed got me a full level closer to “live” from the reproduction of the sound of recorded musical instruments.

Zerostargeneral’s system manifests natural-sounding high frequencies, and detail which is delicate in an electrostatic-like way, but which was not once harsh or fatiguing or bright or artificial-sounding.

The texture of instruments came through more vividly than I recall ever having heard before on any system. I could close my eyes and suspend disbelief to find a jazz club transported to me.

I did not hear an absence of low frequencies, nor did I hear any shaving off of high frequencies — two failings for which I was on the look-out. I found this system to sound completely full-range. Whether it is or not I do not know, but to my ears the system is not wanting for frequency extension at either extreme.

Without any cones pushing air this system produced weightier drum wacks on “I’ve Got the Music in Me” than I have heard from large, multi-way dynamic driver systems. I don’t really understand how this is possible, but this is what I heard.

I believe the purity of the signal path allow details and textural information to be heard, while more complicated systems — multi-way speakers with energy-absorbing cross-overs, high-power amplifiers, lots of discrete components in the signal path — literally obscure this delicate and elusive atomic sonic information. The uncorrupted signal, the lack of adulteration inflicted by the electronic components, allowed me to experience reproduced jazz music, solo instruments and ensembles more realistically and believably than I have ever before heard in a stereo system."

Great description Ron… really nice.

 

[the sound of Tao]

There is the softening caveat that I have learned since that visit that I tend to be over-excited about what I heard in the near-time processing immediately after the experience. I honestly have trouble remembering specifically what I heard in Ebiye's system.

I remember the room is huge and naturally wonderful sonically without any acoustic treatment.

I would need to visit Ebiye again to figure out and assess his room + system in the context of the rooms + systems I have heard since my visit there.

It’s probably like child birth Ron, once you’ve had a numinous experience the mind closes it away so we don’t live in expectation of the extraordinary and so the everyday and the mundane doesn’t seem so bad.

 

[PeterA]

how so? how many dedicated rooms have you heard that you would consider wide? with large speakers and subwoofers? and how did those work for you?

I wrote that in my experience there is a loose correlation between room width and the perceived width of a systems soundstage. You even list some of the reasons here:

soundstage width comes from many factors, and actual width is one of them. listening position, near field or far-field, toe-in, acoustical treatment, power grid and amplification headroom, driver type, amplification type, music chosen, signal path purity and set-up precision are all factors. i'm sure Marty checks all those boxes.

have you heard a narrow room with an exceptionally wide soundstage relative to a well setup average size room or large room?

Yes. Al M’s narrow room versus Goodwin’s High End main room.

everything we post is subjective and conjecture. we don't deal in the proof game. so what?

Not everything we post is subjective and conjecture. We often post details about set up and gear and photographs. None of that is subjective or conjecture. Ron telling us that Marty’s room is wider than his is not conjecture.

Ron’s listening impressions are indeed subjective and his serious wondering about Daryl Wilson is conjecture. I’m not asking for proof. I’m just saying I think it’s a bit strange to presume that Darrell Wilson has not heard his own speakers optimized.

 

[PeterA]

Hello Peter,

I never stated this this broadly. At one point I posted that I think the overall tonal balance and relative transparency can be discerned from the videos. But I think a month or so ago I retracted even that.

OK, maybe I missed that Ron. Thank you. Perhaps then the videos of your room have no value beyond the visual. So if you now say the videos don’t sound like what you hear in the room, are the measurements you took more reflective of the frequency response in the room?

The measurements don’t seem to correspond with what Al wrote about hearing your system.

 

[treitz3]

Hello and good evening to you all. After repeated warnings and requests, Carlos will be taking an involuntary vacation from the WBF. The team will decide whether or not it will be a two month ban or a permanent one. I would like to take this opportunity to say that being a member of this forum is a privilege and not a right.

When it is requested that you abide by the TOS? We do rule with a gentle hand but in cases like this......well, you will no longer be a part of this forum or you will involuntarily be taking some time off to reflect upon things.

That said, this thread will be closed for a stint and will reopen at an undisclosed date TBD.

Tom

 

[treitz3]

All, this thread will now reopen. Please allow me to remind you that this forum has a set of rules that every member agreed to before joining.

Our Terms of Service can be found here >>> https://www.whatsbestforum.com/help/terms/

Now let's please get back to the topic at hand and do so in a cordial manner that is beneficial and constructive to the community, instead of what closed the thread down to begin with. Thank you in advance for your cooperation and have a great evening.

Tom

 

[adyc]

Five (5) Favorite private rooms + systems of all time as of January 19, 2024, in no particular order:

Jack Duavit, dedicated, custom-built room, Von Schweikert VR-11/Lamm

Mike Lavigne, dedicated, custom-built room, Evolution Acoustics MM7/darTZeel/VAC

Ali Lehman, dedicated room (not custom-built), Avantgarde Trio G3, bass-horns, REL, Berning 211 SET/VAC

Marty, dedicated, custom-built room, Wilson Audio Alexx V/Zanden/Soulution/Gryphon

Jeroen (audioquattr), dedicated room (not custom built), Cessaro Zeta, custom subwoofers/Trafomatic Elysium/Alieno

Ron, is it possible to post some photos of Lehman's room? There were photos of the other four rooms in various thread of WBF.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, is it possible to post some photos of Lehman's room? There were photos of the other four rooms in various thread of WBF.

No. I did not take any photos. I didn't ask. It's a private room.

 

[marty]

I wrote that in my experience there is a loose correlation between room width and the perceived width of a systems soundstage. You even list some of the reasons here:






Yes. Al M’s narrow room versus Goodwin’s High End main room.



Not everything we post is subjective and conjecture. We often post details about set up and gear and photographs. None of that is subjective or conjecture. Ron telling us that Marty’s room is wider than his is not conjecture.

Ron’s listening impressions are indeed subjective and his serious wondering about Daryl Wilson is conjecture. I’m not asking for proof. I’m just saying I think it’s a bit strange to presume that Darrell Wilson has not heard his own speakers optimized.

Gentlemen,
This is becoming personally embarrassing. I do not see the merit of anyone pressing Ron for further clarification on my room or system. What is the point? He’s expressed an opinion, that’s all. If you want the answers to the questions you asked, I welcome any of you to visit. I mean, that’s what audiophiles do, right? Visits are meaningful experiences. Otherwise it’s more like coffee gossip and what’s more, will surely not provide productive take aways for anyone. I can assure you, I hardly have the perfect system or room. Moreover, I ‘m probably the most critical among us for appreciating its flaws. That’s what audiophile visits are very productive for, at least for me. I learned a great deal by visiting folks like Mike, Steve and David to help me figure out next steps to improve my own listening experience. What’s the worst that could happen? We’ll have some fun and drink some wine. I’m in.
Marty

 

[Audiohertz2]

Five (5) Favorite private rooms + systems of all time as of January 19, 2024, in no particular order:

Jack Duavit, dedicated, custom-built room, Von Schweikert VR-11/Lamm

Mike Lavigne, dedicated, custom-built room, Evolution Acoustics MM7/darTZeel/VAC

Ali Lehman, dedicated room (not custom-built), Avantgarde Trio G3, bass-horns, REL, Berning 211 SET/VAC

Marty, dedicated, custom-built room, Wilson Audio Alexx V/Zanden/Soulution/Gryphon

Jeroen (audioquattr), dedicated room (not custom built), Cessaro Zeta, custom subwoofers/Trafomatic Elysium/Alieno

Just goes to show, many avenues , one Ron ..!

 

[AudioHR]

Gentlemen,
This is becoming personally embarrassing. I do not see the merit of anyone pressing Ron for further clarification on my room or system. What is the point? He’s expressed an opinion, that’s all. If you want the answers to the questions you asked, I welcome any of you to visit. I mean, that’s what audiophiles do, right? Visits are meaningful experiences. Otherwise it’s more like coffee gossip and what’s more, will surely not provide productive take aways for anyone of us. I can assure you, I hardly have the perfect system or room. Moreover, I ‘m probably the most critical among us for appreciating its flaws. That’s what audiophile visits are very productive for, at least for me. I learned a great deal by visiting folks like Mike, Steve and David to help me figure out next steps to improve my own listening experience. What’s the worst that could happen? We’ll have some fun and drink some wine. I’m in.
Marty

A very reasonable suggestion. Audiophile visits are meaningful and fun experience. While sometimes my group has way to much fun, lol, these experiences can be very helpful. Love your attitude!

 

[JackD201]

Gentlemen,
This is becoming personally embarrassing. I do not see the merit of anyone pressing Ron for further clarification on my room or system. What is the point? He’s expressed an opinion, that’s all. If you want the answers to the questions you asked, I welcome any of you to visit. I mean, that’s what audiophiles do, right? Visits are meaningful experiences. Otherwise it’s more like coffee gossip and what’s more, will surely not provide productive take aways for anyone. I can assure you, I hardly have the perfect system or room. Moreover, I ‘m probably the most critical among us for appreciating its flaws. That’s what audiophile visits are very productive for, at least for me. I learned a great deal by visiting folks like Mike, Steve and David to help me figure out next steps to improve my own listening experience. What’s the worst that could happen? We’ll have some fun and drink some wine. I’m in.
Marty

I've already enjoyed your company over wine, next time I hope to be able to visit you and maybe even catch a green flash

 

[VinylSavor]

You can read up Mayer's designs of 10y pre, 46 amp and his D3a phono on his vinylsavor blog.

Hi!

Please note that only the differential 10Y preamp and the differential 46 amps have no capacitors in the signal path. I do not know which of my amps and preamps you listend to in that chain were differential. Definitely not the D3a phono. I never shipped a differential D3a phono to the UK. And even in my differential D3a there are capacitors and resistors in the signal path. In the LCR EQ circuit, the gain stages in that phono are capless.
Maybe do some fact checking before posting such statements.

This gets mixed up often and people tend to think transformer coupled designs are generally not having capacitors in the signal path. This is not the case, most transformer coupled circuit still have some.

best regards

Thomas

 

[bonzo75]

Ok, so the pre and power didn’t, the phono did. I can’t recollect exactly what I was told 5 years ago

 

[VinylSavor]

Ok, so the pre and power didn’t, the phono did. I can’t recollect exactly what I was told 5 years ago

Ok, so 4 capacitors in the signal path per channel and a handful of resistors. I prefer to keep the technical facts about my gear correct
You can always ask me about technical facts before publicly posting

 

[Lagonda]

Ok, so 4 capacitors in the signal path per channel and a handful of resistors. I prefer to keep the technical facts about my gear correct
You can always ask me about technical facts before publicly posting

I always have to laugh about your responses to Ked's posts about your products, he is your biggest fan and promoter, most of us would probably not have heard of Mayer without him ! Give him some slack !

 

[VinylSavor]

I always have to laugh about your responses to Ked's posts about your products, he is your biggest fan and promoter, most of us would probably not have heard of Mayer without him ! Give him some slack !

Sorry, it was just meant to get the facts right.

 

[morricab]

I always have to laugh about your responses to Ked's posts about your products, he is your biggest fan and promoter, most of us would probably not have heard of Mayer without him ! Give him some slack !

Facts don’t care about your feelings…