Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Zeotrope]

I have in fact tested and compared that. There’s not much voodoo in this..

With the Shunyata components?
It does seem like ‘voodoo’ as it neglects to take into account that each LPS AC input is filtered, and the grounds are joined and filtered. Sorry, but I don’t see the value in a 2400EUR DC distribution box for those who have good LPS and AC and ground filtering products. It hasn’t been sufficiently demonstrated and explained if there were in fact detailed comparisons done, then it would be great to see them.

 

[dminches]

There is no ‘high end‘ D to A converter for professional use. Nothing like what Taiko has done for the Extreme, paying attention to AC filtering, etc etc.

1. I disagree. There are a number of A/Ds which are as high quality as the D/As out there.

2. I am not sure what your point is. Everything you listen to in the digital domain has utilized an A/D as some point. Are you saying nothing digital sounds good? If so, it wouldn't matter how good the Extreme is if the source material wasn't good.

Call me confused by your comment.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Yes but I don’t think you can say this is better than two supplies with each grounded and each having filtered AC with a Shunyata Denali/Everest and Altaira … among the other various options that perform a similar function. Not until it has been tested and compared.

The link I just shared may be of interest to you aswell in your particular case, read pages 33-37.

 

[Kris]

Basically in my experiments anything below 2-3MHz affects sound by not yet fully understood mechanisms. Above that simply does nothing audible. A wi-fi access point does use a variety of high efficiency switchers emitting pollution in this range, 500-700KHz is a very common range for example. So we need to address that specifically and see if it solves the problem.

Cant wait for you to dig deep ito it AND to find the cure.
I am willing to pay whatever it takes to eliminate it .

In comparison Wifi v wired connection with same ipad The difference is so big that it must be eliminated.
Switches are effective to isolate it but I pay the price in the latency I belive .

 

[Taiko Audio]

The link I just shared may be of interest to you aswell in your particular case, read pages 33-37.

And pages 97-107.

 

[dminches]

Cant wait for you to dig deep ito it AND to find the cure.
I am willing to pay whatever it takes to eliminate it .

In comparison Wifi v wired connection with same ipad The difference is so big that it must be eliminated.
Switches are effective to isolate it but I pay the price in the latency I belive .

Are you able to not have any wifi access in your house and work with only wired computing?

 

[Zeotrope]

1. I disagree. There are a number of A/Ds which are as high quality as the D/As out there.

2. I am not sure what your point is. Everything you listen to in the digital domain has utilized an A/D as some point. Are you saying nothing digital sounds good? If so, it wouldn't matter how good the Extreme is if the source material wasn't good.

Call me confused by your comment.

I am saying that digital will never be as good as analog until the A to D conversion has been transformed by the “Taiko” treatment. If you can find a professional A/D converter and mastering system that has as much attention placed on how bits are handled as the Extreme, I would love to see it.
I have spoken at length to a mastering engineer and one of the leaders of one of the big/well regarded brands - he knows all the components on the market. They don’t exist.
Until this can be addressed (maybe by Taiko) digital will always be behind analog.

 

[Zeotrope]

The link I just shared may be of interest to you aswell in your particular case, read pages 33-37.

Ok, will read!

 

[Kris]

Are you able to not have any wifi access in your house and work with only wired computing?

yes. But only when kids are not home ….

 

[dminches]

I am saying that digital will never be as good as analog until the A to D conversion has been transformed by the “Taiko” treatment. If you can find a professional A/D converter and mastering system that has as much attention placed on how bits are handled as the Extreme, I would love to see it.
I have spoken at length to a mastering engineer and one of the leaders of one of the big/well regarded brands - he knows all the components on the market. They don’t exist.
Until this can be addressed (maybe by Taiko) digital will always be behind analog.

That's a whole other issue (digital will never be as good as analog). What I thought we were talking about is improving on the mastering of digital recordings.

Right now, Taiko does not make a DAC so I am not sure why you aren't also commenting on that part too. Eventually the information has to end up in the analog domain.

I have no real interest in the analog to digital comparisons. Each format has its value. I have thousands of live recordings which are in the digital domain and will never be made available in an AAA format so my goal is to just have them sound as good as they can.

 

[dminches]

yes. But only when kids are not home ….

And your neighbors shut off their wifi radios too (unless you live in a remote location). I can "see" 3-4 of my neighbors' signals and I live in the suburbs. Hard to get away from it.

 

[Zeotrope]

That's a whole other issue (digital will never be as good as analog). What I thought we were talking about is improving on the mastering of digital recordings.

Right now, Taiko does not make a DAC so I am not sure why you aren't also commenting on that part too. Eventually the information has to end up in the analog domain.

I have no real interest in the analog to digital comparisons. Each format has its value. I have thousands of live recordings which are in the digital domain and will never be made available in an AAA format so my goal is to just have them sound as good as they can.

I agree with you in general. I was trying to point out that until the mastering process (from the analog input to the digital output) is revolutionized the way that the playback side has been, there will always be a ”wall” that prevents digital from sounding as good as it can.

 

[dminches]

I agree with you in general. I was trying to point out that until the mastering process (from the analog input to the digital output) is revolutionized the way that the playback side has been, there will always be a ”wall” that prevents digital from sounding as good as it can.

I agree, but right now I will be fine if they could just give digital mastering the same attention that analog gets. So many current digital versions sound like crap only due to the poor mastering.

Back to all things Taiko....

 

[Taiko Audio]

Cant wait for you to dig deep ito it AND to find the cure.
I am willing to pay whatever it takes to eliminate it .

In comparison Wifi v wired connection with same ipad The difference is so big that it must be eliminated.
Switches are effective to isolate it but I pay the price in the latency I belive .

Working on it!

 

[DW101]

Just easing into the day and catching up on the WiFi noise conversation.

For a while now I’ve been adding tinned copper braid shielding over all my Ethernet & DC power cables. My WiFi router is near my system and I’m convinced the shielding helps the sound, which I hypothesise is due to protection from WiFi signals. I’ll be similarly shielding the DAC cables when I get my Taiko Switch and Router.

I found good LPS’s also independently significantly improved the sound when applied to each component in the chain eg switch, router (ie I had the LPS’s in place before experimenting with the shielding).

 

[Taiko Audio]

Ok, will read!

Another aspect is earth loops, which is particularly hard to fix in our systems, cannot find an easy to read piece with a quick google but this picture visualises this particular issue.



Taken from here: https://www.smar.com/en/technical-article/tips-on-shielding-and-grounding-in-industrial-automation

 

[M27HF]

Is there any advantage for dirty side router to have a vlan for Taiko router to connect and run off of ?

 

[seatrope]

Basically in my experiments anything below 2-3MHz affects sound by not yet fully understood mechanisms. Above that simply does nothing audible. A wi-fi access point does use a variety of high efficiency switchers emitting pollution in this range, 500-700KHz is a very common range for example. So we need to address that specifically and see if it solves the problem.

Emile - quick side question regarding this @Taiko Audio. I'm getting solar installed right now and have ordered a whole bunch of ferrites for the installers to put around the cables from the solar panels right above my listening room coming from the DC-DC optimizers. Most of the literature online is about HAM radio interference at around 14 Mhz. I purchased ferrites optimized for absorption around there.

Sounds from your experiments that I should really focus on absorption centered below 3Mhz.

If people are interested, this is what I am considering for "low" range absorption:
Round Cable EMI Suppression Cores (2675821502) - Fair-Rite

vs this one for higher range absorption used by HAM radio operators with solar installations,
Round Cable EMI Suppression Cores (2631803802) - Fair-Rite

My understanding is that the inverters and optimizers use DSP high frequency switching to do their work which results in this EMI around 14-28 Mhz.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Is there any advantage for dirty side router to have a vlan for Taiko router to connect and run off of ?

No.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile - quick side question regarding this @Taiko Audio. I'm getting solar installed right now and have ordered a whole bunch of ferrites for the installers to put around the cables from the solar panels right above my listening room coming from the DC-DC optimizers. Most of the literature online is about HAM radio interference at around 14 Mhz. I purchased ferrites optimized for absorption around there.

Sounds from your experiments that I should really focus on absorption centered below 3Mhz.

If people are interested, this is what I am considering for "low" range absorption:
Round Cable EMI Suppression Cores (2675821502) - Fair-Rite

vs this one for higher range absorption used by HAM radio operators with solar installations,
Round Cable EMI Suppression Cores (2631803802) - Fair-Rite

My understanding is that the inverters and optimizers use DSP high frequency switching to do their work which results in this EMI around 14-28 Mhz.

Looks good, I would use both but I guess you figured that out already