Visit to Audiophile Bill to hear his horns project

[beaur]

Everything is a compromise, in a best case scenario he could have AER to build a 15' driver with the same materials as the one used in the Pnoe, and then build a separate horn with the same topology and materials as the Pnoe's that goes down to 20hz (which would be ridiculously huge and impractical) and physically time align them in the same room. That would be the most purist approach, and would still require a crossover.

I believe Bill's idea was to save $$$$ by DIY, not quadruple the costs!

 

[morricab]

Everything is a compromise, in a best case scenario he could have AER to build a 15' driver with the same materials as the one used in the Pnoe, and then build a separate horn with the same topology and materials as the Pnoe's that goes down to 20hz (which would be ridiculously huge and impractical) and physically time align them in the same room. That would be the most purist approach, and would still require a crossover.

This is what Aries Creat did in 2019 in Munich and the sub horn was 4 meters in front of the main speakers! It was visually disconcerting but sonically amazing.

 

[bonzo75]

As an update, Bill's current amp is one that I had sourced from Serbia, an 801a amp of 4 watts. The designer Tatic no more makes amps, hence had got it at a nice cost for some compares. Bill heard it and bought it, now will keep it while he searches for the final amp. While he knows the Mayer 46, now there is a big opportunity to experience some 300b, 2a3, etc on these. The 801 is the same as his preamp valve 10y, just higher output.

 

[cal3713]

As an update, Bill's current amp is one that I had sourced from Serbia, an 801a amp of 4 watts. The designer Tatic no more makes amps, hence had got it at a nice cost for some compares. Bill heard it and bought it, now will keep it while he searches for the final amp. While he knows the Mayer 46, now there is a big opportunity to experience some 300b, 2a3, etc on these. The 801 is the same as his preamp valve 10y, just higher output.

Ked, do you have any links or photos for the amp? I'd love to learn more about it if possible (despite it's being unobtanium, more or less). Thanks.

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, do you have any links or photos for the amp? I'd love to learn more about it if possible (despite it's being unobtanium, more or less). Thanks.

i put up a pic here https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/set-amp-owners-thread.27070/post-816188

i had done research on this before and did not find anything more than from the original Serbian owner whom I know off U.K. forums for a few years, he had replaced this with a Thomas Mayer 300b, and sold the 801 to one guy near London whom I bought from.

I bought because given the value it looked like a great buy for a very low watt amp that I could use to benchmark other low watt amps. Bill felt the same after he heard it so it is something he can keep till he finds final amp (which could be back to the TM 46 or something else)

 

[the sound of Tao]

I believe Bill's idea was to save $$$$ by DIY, not quadruple the costs!

Not wanting to speak for Bill or to presume for him (another aspect of loss in his going) in us assuming what Bill’s exact design drivers in his deep dive explores in DIY design but (to me) him saving on dollars didn’t seem at all a major driver for Bill from what ever I saw.

His approach always seemed fairly caught up in the cost no object end of discovery and Bill’s process seemed aimed at being creative and in his enjoying self discovery and pushing possible specification well past the more common boundaries found in much of the commercial end of horn design. The failure to recognise his true intention beyond some I’m just saving some bucks in the investment of his time and in the many components of his journey I suppose is possibly part of what probably recently turned him off.

All the underestimating what he was actually doing in bespoke field coil builds or his approach in process for fabricating in his epic wood turned horns wasn’t seemingly ever about saving dollars at all. But since he’s now gone perhaps we’ll not know for sure or even how all these extraordinary explorations might eventually work out.

I for one am also excited to see him venture into the land of the pnoe way.

It would be great to eventually get Bill’s more complete personal perspective on all he learns from this next step of his journey but still getting updates from Ked is great consolation and much appreciated even if it in ways it teases plenty about what it could sometime also teach us.

I still hope Bill does share a blog on it all at some point or perhaps gets an invite on board for a chapter or two on your own fine blog Ked… being stuck reading about the mundane spectrum at the more commercial and more regular end of the speaker design world even with plenty of very high priced builds isn’t necessarily quite as uniquely fascinating or even possibly as fulfilling for some of us.

 

[bonzo75]

Guys it’s very simple. Bill heard the best system that made him jump into horns. It also inspired a DIY hobby. While I got interested in drivers he got interested in the whole shebang of wood building, designing crossovers, making his own FC etc

He found that same horn again at a good price and realised he could over the next few months to a couple of years replicate that system exactly. It is quite something to be able to replicate a dream system exactly as it was.

The DIY journey can continue. He just finished building his own staircase from wood. DIY builds are not easy where one is trying their own design. R&D takes years. Meanwhile he will be able to focus on listening to Pnoes or on DIY depending on his mood during a particular period

it is exciting for me as well because I get some quality low watt amp compares on a speaker ideal for them and the DaVa red sparrow will be solved here as well.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Guys it’s very simple. Bill heard the best system that made him jump into horns. It also inspired a DIY hobby. While I got interested in drivers he got interested in the whole shebang of wood building.

He found that horn again at a good price and realised he could over the next few months to a couple of years replicate that system exactly. It is quite something to be able to replicate a dream system exactly as it was.

The DIY journey can continue. He just finished building his own staircase from wood. DIY builds are not easy where one is trying their own design. R&D takes years. Meanwhile he will be able to focus on listening or on DIY depending on his mood during a particular period

it is exciting for me as well because I get some quality low watt amp compares on a speaker ideal for them and the DaVa red sparrow will be solved here as well.

It’s great his journey is just kicking up another gear… his wife must love him very much

 

[PeterA]

I am quietly hoping for a few videos from Bonzo of Bill’s system progress.

 

[marmota]

Not wanting to speak for Bill or to presume for him (another aspect of loss in his going) in us assuming what Bill’s exact design drivers in his deep dive explores in DIY design but (to me) him saving on dollars didn’t seem at all a major driver for Bill from what ever I saw.

His approach always seemed fairly caught up in the cost no object end of discovery and Bill’s process seemed aimed at being creative and in his enjoying self discovery and pushing possible specification well past the more common boundaries found in much of the commercial end of horn design. The failure to recognise his true intention beyond some I’m just saving some bucks in the investment of his time and in the many components of his journey I suppose is possibly part of what probably recently turned him off.

All the underestimating what he was actually doing in bespoke field coil builds or his approach in process for fabricating in his epic wood turned horns wasn’t seemingly ever about saving dollars at all. But since he’s now gone perhaps we’ll not know for sure or even how all these extraordinary explorations might eventually work out.

I for one am also excited to see him venture into the land of the pnoe way.

It would be great to eventually get Bill’s more complete personal perspective on all he learns from this next step of his journey but still getting updates from Ked is great consolation and much appreciated even if it in ways it teases plenty about what it could sometime also teach us.

I still hope Bill does share a blog on it all at some point or perhaps gets an invite on board for a chapter or two on your own fine blog Ked… being stuck reading about the mundane spectrum at the more commercial and more regular end of the speaker design world even with plenty of very high priced builds isn’t necessarily quite as uniquely fascinating or even possibly as fulfilling for some of us.

Agree, couldn't have said it better. @beaur you should read Bill's field coil thread and this one, his approach is anything but cost saving.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

They don’t have to be there. Single driver is the magic. It is not just about extensions it is about wholeness, coherence, and the dynamic range as notes soar through where a crossover will be is unbeatable. Also speed is incredible with very low watt amps. There is actually as little in the signal path as can be possible. Which is also why it varies a lot with the set up

I recommendedf Bill to have built an all out SPUD....single tube e.g 6s45 or WE437.....close to a whole watt!
I tried mine on AG Trios and it drove them to crazy levels with outstanding transparency and speed

 

[bonzo75]

I recommendedf Bill to have built an all out SPUD....single tube e.g 6s45 or WE437.....close to a whole watt!
I tried mine on AG Trios and it drove them to crazy levels with outstanding transparency and speed

yes he mentioned. he might eventually try that. I think we are looking at a few months timeframe for him to do various demos. He might try to build one himself.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I first built the SESS by Andrea Ciuffoli
then converted to a 0,75watt poweramp as well, then A80 buffer amp
6s45 and choke input psu
replaced DACT att by grid choke and OPT to a James

 

[Argonaut]

This little project would keep him out of trouble for a while :

My New SE-OTL Amplifier

I thought I would show off my newly finished SE-OTL amplifier project; Anyway, the amp uses beautiful 13E1 output tubes - just one per channel for around 1.5W per channel, which is plenty for my 15ohm Lowther horns. The 13E1s are beam tetrodes, run in triode mode. Input/driver tubes are...

www.diyaudio.com

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

yes but the SPUD is only 2 components in the signal path, and that´s pretty obvious when you hook it up....

 

[the sound of Tao]

Day 20 and still missing Bill and his interesting contributions… btw whatever happened to the other guy???

 

[Argonaut]

yes but the SPUD is only 2 components in the signal path, and that´s pretty obvious when you hook it up....

True, and the SPUD is a great project that can run WE437, however in the world of amplification perhaps sometimes Less is not always More

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

anyway I built it with 6s45 at 12mA sweetspot and it was great

 

[pjwd]

True, and the SPUD is a great project that can run WE437, however in the world of amplification perhaps sometimes Less is not always More

Robert Venturi said " less is a bore " but of course post modernism has come and gonel

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

intially my SPUD was designed to drive Sennheiser HD-650, then I added James OPTs and some other components and switches, so I could alternate between headphone amp and 0,75watt poweramp for AG Trio
later another added feature made it perfect as tube buffer for Studer A80RC reproboards after EQ
why on earth did I sell it.....stupidest decision ever....