Visit to Audiophile Bill to hear his horns project

[morricab]

View attachment 99147
View attachment 99148

What horn type is that? The previous was a JMLC, right? My new one is a round Tractix with 550Hz cutoff.

 

[audioquattr]

What horn type is that? The previous was a JMLC, right? My new one is a round Tractix with 550Hz cutoff.

It looks like a wooden version of a K-402. Nice btw!
I think the previous was a JMLC-270?

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

after having tested and measured JBL 2384 and Klipsch K-402 my very competent friend designed this CD horn
2/3rd conical last tractrix.....made with "correct" precision adapter and very solid and dead
TAD 4003 from 600-20K....constant response in 85x45 degrees...no sweetspot , no beaming, no hf crossover
smoother and with better imaging than my previous JMLC 270 full rollback

 

[morricab]

after having tested and measured JBL 2384 and Klipsch K-402 my very competent friend designed this CD horn
2/3rd conical last tractrix.....made with "correct" precision adapter and very solid and dead
TAD 4003 from 600-20K....constant response in 85x45 degrees...no sweetspot , no beaming, no hf crossover
smoother and with better imaging than my previous JMLC 270 full rollback

Since it is constant directivity do you equalize the highs?

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

we shelve the "lows", since 4003 is the only driver with enough output up to 20K

 

[morricab]

after having tested and measured JBL 2384 and Klipsch K-402 my very competent friend designed this CD horn
2/3rd conical last tractrix.....made with "correct" precision adapter and very solid and dead
TAD 4003 from 600-20K....constant response in 85x45 degrees...no sweetspot , no beaming, no hf crossover
smoother and with better imaging than my previous JMLC 270 full rollback

I run my much small horn from 1Khz…before I had the 18 Sound XT1464, which is constant directivity and works from 800Hz but I found 1khz the best blend with the Supravox driver. Is there a reason you don’t go lower than 600Hz?

 

[morricab]

we shelve the "lows", since 4003 is the only driver with enough output up to 20K

I get nice measured response in room to 20khz with my Beyma CP755Ti. Ever tried this driver?

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I run my much small horn from 1Khz…before I had the 18 Sound XT1464, which is constant directivity and works from 800Hz but I found 1khz the best blend with the Supravox driver. Is there a reason you don’t go lower than 600Hz?

because we find the drivers natural raw response rolloff in the horn and "push it over the edge" as opposed to forcing a different x/o point/curve

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I get nice measured response in room to 20khz with my Beyma CP755Ti. Ever tried this driver?

no but you can reach 20K with many drivers, but not with output to match the supersensitive midbasshorns and I don´t want to reduce their output to match a shelved HF driver to get flat response
I prefer to keep as high sensitivity as possible...simply sounds more easyflowing and dynamic

 

[Don Reid]

In response to a question posed earlier, yes I do use AER BD3s in my Oris 150 horns. Perhaps I am just a tin ear, but I don't hear plastic coloration with my ABS plastic Oris horns. The only other ABS plastic objects with which I am familiar are the ABS blades of my white water canoe paddles. After forty years of bashing them into rocks to push my boat back on course when running fast technical rivers they are still quite intact.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

just asked because a close friend had that combo for a few years and I listened to it with great pleasure on a pair of 45s reactance drives

 

[DasguteOhr]

a really good combination is a b&c de 250 with dayton h812 horn cost 180€. Buy it its sounds phantastic 1khz 18db xover
Horn

Dayton Audio H812 1" Exponential Horn 100x60 2-Bolt kaufen

Bestellen Sie den H812 online bei SoundImports ✓ Versand am selben Tag ✓ Niedrige Versandkosten

www.soundimports.eu

B&C de250

B&C DE250 - 8 Ohm

120 W continuous program power capacity 1” horn throat diameter 44 mm (1.7 in) aluminium voice coil Polyimide diaphragm 1000 – 18000 Hz…

www.lautsprecherteile.de

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

those 2 db from 2-7K won´t sound nice without remedies
polyamid diaphragm won´t help either...gladpack sound like most BMS IMNSHO
and 20K is 10db down......useless

 

[Maril555]

Update on my horns:
The crossovers are now wall mounted, which added more stability to vocals and instruments, extended decay, and a more cohesive soundstage (vs standing them on the floor and leaning against a wall).

I didn’t go in Bill’s direction. My views on single driver vs multi-driver sound be clear. There is also a 6’ tall active transmission line sub (not pictured). If you want to play the breadth of music available, one driver won’t cut it, for the simple reason that no single (or dual) driver exists that can play accurately across the spectrum.
A simple crossover with high quality components will not deteriorate the sound. While these speakers were being built, I had an open baffle JL Labs design with single RCA “high frequency” woofers. They were nice, but could never compete with these.

I also agree with Weiss at OMA that only conical horns add no distortion to the sound and have the widest sweet spot.

Time alignment is also critical - most of these large horn projects are not time aligned.You can certainly have a great and fun sound from non time-aligned drivers; but with multiple horns the affects are usually greater than with conventional drivers (eg, Magico).

Could you comment on X-over design?
1st, 2nd order? X-over points?
Thank you

 

[DasguteOhr]

those 2 db from 2-7K won´t sound nice without remedies

many people like this is perfect for long-term listening, presence and brilliance area 4-7khz) 2db down. voices are good, not exaggerated s-f tones.I think it's very good, it's a matter of taste.

 

[morricab]

a really good combination is a b&c de 250 with dayton h812 horn cost 180€. Buy it its sounds phantastic 1khz 18db xover
Horn

Dayton Audio H812 1" Exponential Horn 100x60 2-Bolt kaufen

Bestellen Sie den H812 online bei SoundImports ✓ Versand am selben Tag ✓ Niedrige Versandkosten

www.soundimports.eu

B&C de250

B&C DE250 - 8 Ohm

120 W continuous program power capacity 1” horn throat diameter 44 mm (1.7 in) aluminium voice coil Polyimide diaphragm 1000 – 18000 Hz…

www.lautsprecherteile.de

View attachment 99155

I found Beyma with Ti diaphragm to sound WAY better

 

[morricab]

no but you can reach 20K with many drivers, but not with output to match the supersensitive midbasshorns and I don´t want to reduce their output to match a shelved HF driver to get flat response
I prefer to keep as high sensitivity as possible...simply sounds more easyflowing and dynamic

You don’t really want totally flat response…it will sound to bright in room

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

Mine are 3-5 db down from 2 to 20K

 

[DasguteOhr]

I found Beyma with Ti diaphragm to sound WAY better

Good that we all hear differently otherwise it would be boring.
since I first heard it 8 years ago. i sold all my metal diaphragm drivers jbl ,tad...etc. and invested my money in good xover parts. have fun with your drivers.

P.S
look this video then you see what modification you have do for better sound. peaks and dips in frequence response are mostly gone my none expensive tip

 

[morricab]

Good that we all hear differently otherwise it would be boring.
since I first heard it 8 years ago. i sold all my metal diaphragm drivers jbl ,tad...etc. and invested my money in good xover parts. have fun with your drivers.

P.S
look this video then you see what modification you have do for better sound. peaks and dips in frequence response are mostly gone my none expensive tip

None of the plastic diaphragm compression drivers I have heard ultimately sound realistic.