I think I understand what you are saying. and don't entirely disagree. There is also a time element to music and the time sound takes to reach your ears from its source(s) which suggests the wallpaper is not static.
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I think I understand what you are saying. and don't entirely disagree. There is also a time element to music and the time sound takes to reach your ears from its source(s) which suggests the wallpaper is not static.
Difficult to find both those things on an audio forum.
Yes, I am basing my image of an oboe on the mental map of what a real live oboe sounds like, which I have heard many times.
It’s obvious that a 3D image of an oboe is not on the LP. However, the information is encoded on the LP, aided in the reconstruction by the playback system, to allow my brain to make the image in my brain from the phase, frequency and level information that my ear/brain translates .
Now, if you are unable to get 3D images with at least some recordings from your listening sessions then either A) Your system is incorrectly decoding the LP information or B) Something is wrong with your perception mechanism.
You've never heard 3D imaging, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, you can remain blissfully ignorant.
While I don’t disagree with you that we are talking about psychoacoustics (you can see many posts of mine regarding the subject) , this is still could be considered as emergent properties related to various biological functions in the brain… I chose to simplify with the word biology just as you chose to simplify it with physics.
Are you saying the information that results in the perception of a 3D image is not encoded in the recording…at all?
The sounds are transported from the microphone (ears) to the brain via the auditory nerve.
The right hemisphere is primarily responsible for the perception of melodies, rhythm, and sounds.
The left hemisphere focuses on analyzing details, such as pitch, rhythm, and harmony.
This is why disagreements often arise when different people listen to the same speaker. It depends on which half of the brain is more developed. For example, one person prefers details, while the other is more interested in the flow of the music. Musical background plays a big role. For example, someone who has never listened to classical music may enjoy the music as a whole, but find it difficult to access the musical depth. The brain has to learn that first.
The right hemisphere is primarily responsible for the perception of melodies, rhythm, and sounds.
The left hemisphere focuses on analyzing details, such as pitch, rhythm, and harmony.
This is why disagreements often arise when different people listen to the same speaker. It depends on which half of the brain is more developed. For example, one person prefers details, while the other is more interested in the flow of the music. Musical background plays a big role. For example, someone who has never listened to classical music may enjoy the music as a whole, but find it difficult to access the musical depth. The brain has to learn that first.
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Yes, of course; there are more poorly mastered and poorly produced LPs than one thinks. It can even depend on the pressing either.
Among the WDR Jazzline series with concerts from the Grugahalle in Essen are some albums very poorly mastered; so there are some positives and also many negatives. With e.g. the Atlantic label, it's more about the pressings, especially with their reissues from 1968 and again from the 1980s onwards
So, you are saying that SOME recordings don't have the needed information encoded? I have found that even poorly recorded and mastered recordings have at least some dimensionality to the playback...not a flat 2D presentation entirely. I have, however, found many systems that do such a poor job of reproducing the information that is on the recording that the result is flat, both soundstage and image.
Every recording engineer knows that the perception of depth is baked into the recording (linked to microphone placement, microphone caractéristicd, etc. ) and can also be manipulated during mixing.
The perception of depth is also dependent on the system, the speakers, and the room. If it is not in the recording, however, there is little chance that you will perceive anything when listening.
Anyone claiming that this perception is only dependant on the listener should get their head examined
The perception of depth is also dependent on the system, the speakers, and the room. If it is not in the recording, however, there is little chance that you will perceive anything when listening.
Anyone claiming that this perception is only dependant on the listener should get their head examined
They also know that imaging, like of a vocalist or soloist, is also baked into the recording and manipulated for relative projection from the rest of the mix in the mastering process.Every recording engineer knows that the perception of depth is baked into the recording (linked to microphone placement, microphone caractéristicd, etc. ) and can also be manipulated during mixing.
The perception of depth is also dependent on the system, the speakers, and the room. If it is not in the recording, however, there is little chance that you will perceive anything when listening.
Anyone claiming that this perception is only dependant on the listener should get their head examined
It´s not a poor job of the system when you recognize issues with staging or spatiality and when you switch to another record/ album and get a proper staging, spatiality and three dimensionality you´re missing with the other record.
Here's a good article by Bob Katz on the subject of depth, with some recommend CDs:
www.digido.com
Depth and Dimension - Digido.com
Digital Domain - we ensure musicians, independent artists and record labels get the best sound possible. Bob Katz provides the best in mastering and mixing.
www.digido.com
It doesn't even need to be an LP. Same thing can happen with poorly recorded streaming or CD's. Even SACD's (Think Grateful Dead or on CD's, bootleg Bob Marley)
Tom
I respectfully beg to differ. I tend to agree with him. Not all recordings/mastering are made alike and can vary greatly between a stellar recording and a bad one (flat and 2D). I knew exactly what he was talking about. Not all recordings are equal.
All one has to do is listen to a bootleg recording from one of Bob Marley's shack recordings and then play Janelle Monáe, "Make me Feel". You can't blame the difference in the presentation on your system.
Tom
I don't disagree either. Who in their right mind would? And that is why I said that the discussion is getting silly. That's the problem when you start arguing with people who hold absurd points of views (for example, that space in a recording is completely subjective).
Sometimes it's the pressing quality, how well the person worked with the master engraver( mutterstecher) on the LP matrix. This can significantly change the channel separation and thus the space formation.
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