6Moons New Policy: Support us, with ad revenue, and we will review your product.

[Andre Marc]

A must read piece by 6Moons head honcho Srajan Ebaen.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/why/why.html

To have a review on *** 6Moons website, you must now, as a
manufacturer, purchase advertising in a show of support.

He makes, IMO, some very, very good arguments.

Your thoughts?

 

[Steve williams]

A must read piece by 6Moons head honcho Srajan Ebaen.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/why/why.html

To have a review on *** 6Moons website, you must now, as a
manufacturer, purchase advertising in a show of support.

He makes, IMO, some very, very good arguments.

Your thoughts?

he does indeed.

Last time I looked, working for free is not conducive to one's sanity.

Amir and I have had the same experiences and launched a "donate" button several months ago to help defer costs. Thanks to all who have offered their help.

I understand where he is coming from

 

[Andre Marc]

he does indeed.

Last time I looked, working for free is not conducive to one's sanity.

Amir and I have had the same experiences and launched a "donate" button several months ago to help defer costs. Thanks to all who have offered their help.

I understand where he is coming from

Excellent comment. Working for free doesn't do much for one's bank account either, sanity not withstanding.

 

[amirm]

I like it. He does an excellent job making a difficult case. I really like what he says at the end about what they will or will not do for manufacturers.

 

[Andre Marc]

I like it. He does an excellent job making a difficult case. I really like what he says at the end about what they will or will not do for manufacturers.

Agree. Everything is fully out in the light of day.

Srajan is a superb writer and a very, very astute listener. Some find his prose dense, but when you dig through it, I find his descriptions of
gear I have heard extremely accurate.

He is very honest about product shortcomings, according to his taste, and there is no way I believe he will be compromised.

The fact is he is right, a review on his site is basically free advertising, whether he raves about it or not.

Lastly, it also filters out the pretenders. If you are a real company with a real product, put some skin in the game.

 

[amirm]

In my day job, I always advertise when magazines offer to write about us. I sometimes receive resistance internally as far as expense but then I ask them how much a multi-page, color ad would cost and folks become quiet .

 

[TBone]

Ballsy move, I'll give Srajan that ... especially considering the inevitable "slippery slope" debates sure to follow.

This is certainly an item the rest of the industry will be watching closely, but for those of us (or perhaps I'm the only one) who already find the navigation routes of 6balloons frustrating beyond its existing advertising ...

 

[Andre Marc]

Ballsy move, I'll give Srajan that ... especially considering the inevitable "slippery slope" debates sure to follow.

This is certainly an item the rest of the industry will be watching closely, but for those of us (or perhaps I'm the only one) who already find the navigation routes of 6balloons frustrating beyond its existing advertising ...

I have to agree. The website is an absolute mess. Tough to navigate.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

He makes his case well, and if he has thought it through that carefully, and lived up to it informally all the years he's been in business, he can probably do even better with the relationship codified. Journalistic ethics have never been a problem at 6Moons IMO. Credibility is. It is exemplified by the photos in this article. 6Moons is a purely subjective site. They won't measure. But, evidently, they won't listen in decent rooms either. It's one thing to listen in a "normal" domestic space with rugs and over-stuffed furniture and lots of natural diffusers. It's not an ideal thing, but it's what most listeners get and, therefore, a legitimate choice. But look at the rooms in those pictures. Look at the speaker placements. Half of them are acoustic nightmares. They are listening in those rooms and writing purely subjective reviews based on that listening. In some of those cases, they don't really have any idea what they're listening to. Half the time I stop by that site and read a review, its credibility is destroyed by the pictures of the listening space, and the credibility of the writing staff is destroyed by the fact that they evidently don't know any better. I'm not demanding room treatments, even. Just decent speaker placement and a lack of obviously noisy, reflective, parallel surfaces unacceptably close to the speakers would be a good start. I wouldn't set up mics and record guitar and voice in those rooms. Review hifi at realistic volume? Not responsibly.

Tim

 

[cpp]

He makes his case well, and if he has thought it through that carefully, and lived up to it informally all the years he's been in business, he can probably do even better with the relationship codified. Journalistic ethics have never been a problem at 6Moons IMO. Credibility is. It is exemplified by the photos in this article. 6Moons is a purely subjective site. They won't measure. But, evidently, they won't listen in decent rooms either. It's one thing to listen in a "normal" domestic space with rugs and over-stuffed furniture and lots of natural diffusers. It's not an ideal thing, but it's what most listeners get and, therefore, a legitimate choice. But look at the rooms in those pictures. Look at the speaker placements. Half of them are acoustic nightmares. They are listening in those rooms and writing purely subjective reviews based on that listening. In some of those cases, they don't really have any idea what they're listening to. Half the time I stop by that site and read a review, its credibility is destroyed by the pictures of the listening space, and the credibility of the writing staff is destroyed by the fact that they evidently don't know any better. I'm not demanding room treatments, even. Just decent speaker placement and a lack of obviously noisy, reflective, parallel surfaces unacceptably close to the speakers would be a good start. I wouldn't set up mics and record guitar and voice in those rooms. Review hifi at realistic volume? Not responsibly.

Tim

Well I must ask, have you seen any other pictures of say those that review on Stereophile like JA or Kal or anyone else for that matter that reviews on a on-site or mag ? just wondering .
I'm just thrilled someone somewhere is actually reviewing audio equipment instead of reading an (1) owners opinion on a forum or a manufacturers (trust me) praise of their own equipment. Subjective or Objective at least someone is reviewing something.

 

[dallasjustice]

At least Srajan will post a photo of his entire room. I respect him for that much. Low quality acoustical environment seems to be the rule and not the exception. I agree that he has no idea what he's reviewing in a bad room.

He makes his case well, and if he has thought it through that carefully, and lived up to it informally all the years he's been in business, he can probably do even better with the relationship codified. Journalistic ethics have never been a problem at 6Moons IMO. Credibility is. It is exemplified by the photos in this article. 6Moons is a purely subjective site. They won't measure. But, evidently, they won't listen in decent rooms either. It's one thing to listen in a "normal" domestic space with rugs and over-stuffed furniture and lots of natural diffusers. It's not an ideal thing, but it's what most listeners get and, therefore, a legitimate choice. But look at the rooms in those pictures. Look at the speaker placements. Half of them are acoustic nightmares. They are listening in those rooms and writing purely subjective reviews based on that listening. In some of those cases, they don't really have any idea what they're listening to. Half the time I stop by that site and read a review, its credibility is destroyed by the pictures of the listening space, and the credibility of the writing staff is destroyed by the fact that they evidently don't know any better. I'm not demanding room treatments, even. Just decent speaker placement and a lack of obviously noisy, reflective, parallel surfaces unacceptably close to the speakers would be a good start. I wouldn't set up mics and record guitar and voice in those rooms. Review hifi at realistic volume? Not responsibly.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Well I must ask, have you seen any other pictures of say those that review on Stereophile like JA or Kal or anyone else for that matter that reviews on a on-site or mag ? just wondering .

A few. Not many. Most of them may be in terrible conditions as well. The thing that strikes me about 6Moons is that many of their rooms/placements are not just less than ideal, they are particularly bad. If those are the kinds of conditions under which most reviewers evaluate equipment, the reviews are pretty worthless. I can't imagine why you're thrilled. It's like being thrilled that someone is writing their opinions of pianos played badly out of tune. You could review exactly the same speakers in any two of the rooms pictured and get completely different results. Something as subtle as an amp or a DAC? These guys haven't a clue what they're reviewing.

Tim

 

[cpp]

A few. Not many. Most of them may be in terrible conditions as well. The thing that strikes me about 6Moons is that many of their rooms/placements are not just less than ideal, they are particularly bad. If those are the kinds of conditions under which most reviewers evaluate equipment, the reviews are pretty worthless. I can't imagine why you're thrilled. It's like being thrilled that someone is writing their opinions of pianos played badly out of tune. You could review exactly the same speakers in any two of the rooms pictured and get completely different results. Something as subtle as an amp or a DAC? These guys haven't a clue what they're reviewing.

Tim

me thrilled, sure to a point, like I noted, I would rather have a review of a piece of equipment than no review at all. But like you, if their room is an acoustic mess their impression of the sound quality well is debatable and I just move on past that, and take in the quality of the construction, cabinet bracing, drivers, chips and if lucky measurements etc... After all some of these components be it speakers, amps, dac, TT etc.. are not being sold in an area where a person lives and a review be it good, marginal or poor is at least it's a starting point in the decision making process.

 

[TBone]

If those are the kinds of conditions under which most reviewers evaluate equipment, the reviews are pretty worthless.

Even in the near-field?

 

[Andre Marc]

He makes his case well, and if he has thought it through that carefully, and lived up to it informally all the years he's been in business, he can probably do even better with the relationship codified. Journalistic ethics have never been a problem at 6Moons IMO. Credibility is. It is exemplified by the photos in this article. 6Moons is a purely subjective site. They won't measure. But, evidently, they won't listen in decent rooms either. It's one thing to listen in a "normal" domestic space with rugs and over-stuffed furniture and lots of natural diffusers. It's not an ideal thing, but it's what most listeners get and, therefore, a legitimate choice. But look at the rooms in those pictures. Look at the speaker placements. Half of them are acoustic nightmares. They are listening in those rooms and writing purely subjective reviews based on that listening. In some of those cases, they don't really have any idea what they're listening to. Half the time I stop by that site and read a review, its credibility is destroyed by the pictures of the listening space, and the credibility of the writing staff is destroyed by the fact that they evidently don't know any better. I'm not demanding room treatments, even. Just decent speaker placement and a lack of obviously noisy, reflective, parallel surfaces unacceptably close to the speakers would be a good start. I wouldn't set up mics and record guitar and voice in those rooms. Review hifi at realistic volume? Not responsibly.

Tim

Tim, you make some interesting points.

But in the end, when you say, as far as listening spaces, "it's what most listeners get and, therefore, a legitimate choice", that is what it comes down to.

The fact is the rooms that manufacturers use to voice and listen to their products would shock you. I have seen it.

The question Art Dudley once asked was, "do you adapt your environment to an audio system, or should the audio system adapt to your environment".

 

[Andre Marc]

At least Srajan will post a photo of his entire room. I respect him for that much. Low quality acoustical environment seems to be the rule and not the exception. I agree that he has no idea what he's reviewing in a bad room.

Then why have I heard the identical things he has when in the half dozen instances I have reviewed the same product?

 

[Andre Marc]

Well I must ask, have you seen any other pictures of say those that review on Stereophile like JA or Kal or anyone else for that matter that reviews on a on-site or mag ? just wondering .
I'm just thrilled someone somewhere is actually reviewing audio equipment instead of reading an (1) owners opinion on a forum or a manufacturers (trust me) praise of their own equipment. Subjective or Objective at least someone is reviewing something.

Spot on. NO pics of ANY reviewers rooms at TAS or SPhile have been published aside from Atkinson, Fremer, Harley, and Valin.

 

[Andre Marc]

A few. Not many. Most of them may be in terrible conditions as well. The thing that strikes me about 6Moons is that many of their rooms/placements are not just less than ideal, they are particularly bad. If those are the kinds of conditions under which most reviewers evaluate equipment, the reviews are pretty worthless. I can't imagine why you're thrilled. It's like being thrilled that someone is writing their opinions of pianos played badly out of tune. You could review exactly the same speakers in any two of the rooms pictured and get completely different results. Something as subtle as an amp or a DAC? These guys haven't a clue what they're reviewing.

Tim

I think you make some sweeping statements here. A picture of a listening room is nothing but fodder for internet posters, and is a losing proposition for any web zine.

I am NOT discounting the importance of the room, but any of the reviewers at 6Moons are going to have a better circumstance than any hotel room at CES or Rocky Mountain,
in which gear routinely gets glowing reviews.

 

[Andre Marc]

me thrilled, sure to a point, like I noted, I would rather have a review of a piece of equipment than no review at all. But like you, if their room is an acoustic mess their impression of the sound quality well is debatable and I just move on past that, and take in the quality of the construction, cabinet bracing, drivers, chips and if lucky measurements etc... After all some of these components be it speakers, amps, dac, TT etc.. are not being sold in an area where a person lives and a review be it good, marginal or poor is at least it's a starting point in the decision making process.

Yes, agree, and if you hear the gear you read the review of, and agree with the listening impressions of the reviewer, where does that put the room in the equation?

 

[microstrip]

(...)
The question Art Dudley once asked was, "do you adapt your environment to an audio system, or should the audio system adapt to your environment".

Great question, Andre. I have choosen the second hypothesis, with a few almost invisible changes to the room.

BTW, I really appreciate the 6moons site contents, but would not mind if they improved the site navigation.