The very best DACs today...

At the end of the day it isn't about parts or wiring. Many DACs share the same DAC chips yet sound very different.
The key is when you listen and compare and consider the differences in sound.


of course two dacs can sound different if they have much & good work in the Power Supply & Output stage domains.. but if they have the same electronic elements that is impossible..

and the fact that a device sounds good has nothing to do with the proper construction, the tidy wiring, the rigid housing and the logical pricing..

in this price tag everything must be done right.. not anarchy wiring & 5$ sheet metal chassis..
 
Which lampi is this

Bonzo, if talking about the photo linked by Manos, it is provided as an example of his perspective of tidy point-to-point wiring and is not the lampi. [My mistake as pointed out by Bozo with regards to 2nd photo]

Manos,
thanks for linking your idea of tidy point-to-point, I guess this then comes down to the "complexity" of the design or architecture/stages/implementation; using quotes because complexity can be both good and bad engineering.


Cheers
Orb
 
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nice work.. though here there is not point to point wiring but printed circuit boards..

You DO realize that Lampi DSD is Dac "chip less" and deos not use off the shelf Dac chips, right?

I have gone thru 4 Lampis and NONE ever looked like what you posted.

I am amused at teh fact that you have made several posts but studiously avoided my initial questions…which Lampis have you heard and where, plus where is this mythical $400 Chinese Dac. Then after you speak of power supply. I see many people are jumping to buy after market PSUs. like Uptone JS-2 which is choke filtered LPSU.

Here is the Lampi POWER philosophy:
AD point 2 Analog stage
It is more important than the DAC chip selection. Most DACs sound pretty much the same but it is the analog stage that makes the difference.
99 % manufacturers go exactly for the analog stage prescribed by the DAC manufacturer in their data sheet. Thats so embarrassing. They could do better than that. The Data sheet call for two opamps per channel and thats all. Some manufacturers use higher level own designs of opamps - thats not better, well maybe one small notch better. Some manufacturers go for discrete transistor stage - thats better and sometimes sounds great. The worst case scenario - God forbid - is opamps from data sheet PLUS TUBE BUFFER. Yes, it is so popular these days to stick two tubes just after the opamps. A good example is Shanling CD players, Opera Droplet CD, MHZS, Vincent CD6, and many more. We are definitely not in this camp.
What we do is we design the tube stage with pure triode single ended action into the DAC output and we perform I/V conversion, analog filtering and amplification in one step. The purest, most elegant way.

AD Point 3. As we know POWER IS EVERYTHING. We effectively listen to power supply modulated by the signal. So the power supply is even more important than the output stage circuit itself. Thats why 70 % of budget of the DAC goes to the power supply. It starts with selection of sections, how many points we need to supply and with what voltage and what amperage. In basic Level 3 DAC there is 10 sections, going up to 20 and more in Level 5. Every section sub-group has separate transformer winding so we must design custom transformers with many specialized windings. This is an expensive way of doing things but we believe it is the only way.

For filtering we use different techniques, but lets focus on the most important supply - for the tube anodes. We use TUBE RECTIFIER, not silicon, even in the Amber and Level3 and in every higher level as well. after the tube rectifier we install capacitive output, followed by the big iron choke, followed by more capacitance and another choke. Yes, even lowest Level 3 has CLCLC filter per tube. This technique is RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE. Other companies use CRCRC which has three caps for 1 dollar and two resistors for 1 C each. Our approach is to use film capacitors instead of electrolytes and chokes for resistors and it cost 100 times more. That is our way of doing it.


Then even for PCM playback, its more than just what Dac chip is used, its the combination of Dac/receiver/powersupply that can ne heavenly or hell. It takes enormous time to test all the permutations.

Manos, there is much more to this than the simplistic argument you propose and that is why so many people LOVE the Lampi sound.
 
CAD has Duelund caps, what DAC can say the same ? and ultras short signal path (less than 1 cm).
Just my 2 cents
 
CAD has Duelund caps, what DAC can say the same ? and ultras short signal path (less than 1 cm).
Just my 2 cents

Lampi has had Duelund caps for ages. The lower models had a choice between Duelunds, Jensen and Vcaps. I had the Duelunds on my L5. The B7 used to come with Duelunds, now an option with Jupiter. And the GG has both Duelunds and Jupiters. You can bypass one for the other, I think.
 
You DO realize that Lampi DSD is Dac "chip less" and deos not use off the shelf Dac chips, right?

I have gone thru 4 Lampis and NONE ever looked like what you posted.

I am amused at teh fact that you have made several posts but studiously avoided my initial questions…which Lampis have you heard and where, plus where is this mythical $400 Chinese Dac. Then after you speak of power supply. I see many people are jumping to buy after market PSUs. like Uptone JS-2 which is choke filtered LPSU.

Here is the Lampi POWER philosophy:
AD point 2 Analog stage
It is more important than the DAC chip selection. Most DACs sound pretty much the same but it is the analog stage that makes the difference.
99 % manufacturers go exactly for the analog stage prescribed by the DAC manufacturer in their data sheet. Thats so embarrassing. They could do better than that. The Data sheet call for two opamps per channel and thats all. Some manufacturers use higher level own designs of opamps - thats not better, well maybe one small notch better. Some manufacturers go for discrete transistor stage - thats better and sometimes sounds great. The worst case scenario - God forbid - is opamps from data sheet PLUS TUBE BUFFER. Yes, it is so popular these days to stick two tubes just after the opamps. A good example is Shanling CD players, Opera Droplet CD, MHZS, Vincent CD6, and many more. We are definitely not in this camp.
What we do is we design the tube stage with pure triode single ended action into the DAC output and we perform I/V conversion, analog filtering and amplification in one step. The purest, most elegant way.

AD Point 3. As we know POWER IS EVERYTHING. We effectively listen to power supply modulated by the signal. So the power supply is even more important than the output stage circuit itself. Thats why 70 % of budget of the DAC goes to the power supply. It starts with selection of sections, how many points we need to supply and with what voltage and what amperage. In basic Level 3 DAC there is 10 sections, going up to 20 and more in Level 5. Every section sub-group has separate transformer winding so we must design custom transformers with many specialized windings. This is an expensive way of doing things but we believe it is the only way.

For filtering we use different techniques, but lets focus on the most important supply - for the tube anodes. We use TUBE RECTIFIER, not silicon, even in the Amber and Level3 and in every higher level as well. after the tube rectifier we install capacitive output, followed by the big iron choke, followed by more capacitance and another choke. Yes, even lowest Level 3 has CLCLC filter per tube. This technique is RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE. Other companies use CRCRC which has three caps for 1 dollar and two resistors for 1 C each. Our approach is to use film capacitors instead of electrolytes and chokes for resistors and it cost 100 times more. That is our way of doing it.


Then even for PCM playback, its more than just what Dac chip is used, its the combination of Dac/receiver/powersupply that can ne heavenly or hell. It takes enormous time to test all the permutations.

Manos, there is much more to this than the simplistic argument you propose and that is why so many people LOVE the Lampi sound.


by saying "For filtering we use different techniques" you must be from Lampi team, congrats for your work..

but in this post you do nothing else but just repeat what I have said.. so we totally agree..

Analogue Output and Power Supply are not just simple words but need much research and work to be perfect.. lets say what irons you use in your transformers?? amorphous? nanocrystalline??
and what is the tubes output topology?? there are so many and complex things.. that's what I am saying..

regards..
 
Really??? You didn't see that I have copy/pasted from his website? It is in BOLD for crying out loud.You cant be that clueless!

I cant be on his team as I live in Switzerland and as you can imagine, a small boutique Polish manufacturer cant be in the business of paying good Swiss salaries. It seems you are so intent on besmirching Lampi brand, you are stretching and contorting fantasies to prove a non-existent point. People here like Audiocrack/AL/GearDaddy/Bonzo/Elberoth know me personally. Besides, i have done a couple on-line Factory tour report from Goldmund and Dartzeel (local Geneva companies) as well as coverage of Zurich and Montreux audio shows. I have many friends in Swiss Audio, and have learned a LOT about Transformers…enough to know that your questions mean you are barely scratching the surface.

I wont bother to engage you any more as your agenda is clear for all to see.
 
Really??? You didn't see that I have copy/pasted from his website? It is in BOLD for crying out loud.You cant be that clueless!

I cant be on his team as I live in Switzerland and as you can imagine, a small boutique Polish manufacturer cant be in the business of paying good Swiss salaries. It seems you are so intent on besmirching Lampi brand, you are stretching and contorting fantasies to prove a non-existent point. People here like Audiocrack/AL/GearDaddy/Bonzo/Elberoth know me personally. Besides, i have done a couple on-line Factory tour report from Goldmund and Dartzeel (local Geneva companies) as well as coverage of Zurich and Montreux audio shows. I have many friends in Swiss Audio, and have learned a LOT about Transformers…enough to know that your questions mean you are barely scratching the surface.

I wont bother to engage you any more as your agenda is clear for all to see.

ok man.. sorry..
my mistake not to understand that your bold text was copy from Lampi site..
and I do NOT intent on besmirching Lampi brand, as I have told you before what i have written IS MY THOUGHTS AND MY OPINION about those products.. you can freely disagree with me.. no need to shout and say big words.. okay??
 
manos,
I think the contention also comes to that 2nd photo that I must admit does not seem to be a Lampi manufacturered product but possibly a diy upgrade at best or alternatively a possible imitation (seen those as well for Isotek products) - to me anyway.
Any way you can clarify the photo in more detail.
Thanks
Orb
 
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@orb.. just google the phrase Lampizator dsd dac, you will find the foto first and many others like this..

@wisnon.. why don' t you open the Lampi dac take some fotos and post them for us to see..

regards to all..
Manos
 
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I like many others have done that many times before. Google is your friend.
 
@orb.. just google the phrase Lampizator dsd dac, you will find the foto first and many others like this..

@wisnon.. why don' t you open the Lampi dac take some fotos and post them for us to see..

regards to all..
Manos

I find your posts in this thread absolutely amusing.

You have ZERO experience with the product, yet you post an image, claiming that this is 'a Lampi costing some 1000's'.

When pressed, you admit that the image you posted the first image a quick google search returned !

What you just posted, turns out to be some early DIY prototype ?ukasz did back in 2009, not a Lampizator branded product (I'm not sure Lampizator even existed at that time):

http://lampizator.eu/lampizator/REFERENCES/Buffalo DAC/BuffaloDAC.html

Worse still, you didn't even care to read what other people posted in this thread. Otherwise, you wouldn't ask Winston to post the images of the Lampi Big 7, as I have already posted them yesterday, in response to your original post:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...est-DACs-today&p=312185&viewfull=1#post312185

I'm sorry, but it really looks you are not interested in learning about the product, but rather - only interested in bashing the Lampi brand, for reasons known only to you.
 
I like many others have done that many times before. Google is your friend.

and your friend is Lampizators wire spaghetti served in tin dish at gourmet cost.. I wish you to enrich your 4 Lampi collection with all other models.. best regards..
 
I think a nice thread is being forced downhill by Manos, it is not adding any value as far as I am concerned
 

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