There is no objection to recommending equipment. The request is to not keep saying dealer channel has something wrong with it. We all know that and let's focus on the topic at hand.
System for 10K that will shame $30K systems all day long!
- Thread starter Blizzard
- Start date
Perhaps you should take a breath Mike. We will not be deleting the thread and there is no reason for you to no longer continue any discussion on this thread.
System for 10K that will shame $30K systems all day long.
That which is bold is the discussion. Let's relax, take a deep breath and get back to the subject at hand. It's all good.
Tom
System for 10K that will shame $30K systems all day long.
That which is bold is the discussion. Let's relax, take a deep breath and get back to the subject at hand. It's all good.
Tom
Feel free to recommend equipment and explain why you feel it is high performance and/or good value! The negative comments are unnecessary, as members' experiences with both dealers and direct vendors are widely divergent.
Thanks,
Lee
Thanks,
Lee
The majority of feedback I received on this thread has been negative. I was only trying to clear up misconceptions folks have about buying products like this. If the readers of this thread read these "fear mongering" comments, and walk away scared of buying products like this based on this feedback, then the whole thread was a waste of time.
Members have been skeptical, since you have recommended products based on published specifications of individual components and not the performance of ready-for-market products. Please don't confuse the concerns of folks about finished-product-performance with their disinterest in hearing another member's opinions. Sometimes we fight too hard, even if we're right, and lose the battle because we try too hard. Notice that none of this has been in green font, as this is MY opinion on this topic. I hope it provides you food for thought.
Lee
The only product I haven't listened to on the recommended system is the DAC. We have a few impression of this DAC so far on the other thread, as well as more on the way. Plenty of other info on this DAC available out there as well. See that's the problem, everyone forgets about the actual content of the thread, and just hear what the naysayers say, which isn't even the truth because they didn't bother taking the time to read anything I had to say in the first place.
Not everyone, Mike. Both sides are welcome to voice their opinions/views. How they take said views are up to them. That's just the way life works.
You are just now starting to get feedback on some of your suggestions from those that HAVE listened to what it is you have to offer. Stick with it bro'.
I may *personally* not be interested in what you suggest or have to offer but that means nothing in the whole scheme of things. Others do.
Tom
You must realize that your opinions on one thread are viewed through the lens of folks' experiences with all your threads. I personally find your tone to be arrogant and argumentative, not the best tactic to win folks over to your way of thinking. Once again, this is not in green as I offer these comments on a level playing field. Perhaps you might re-examine how you converse here, and quite possibly receive far more positivity in others' comments.
Lee
Yes that's the way things end up going after the attacks become tiresome. You'll notice everything starts out fine, until the attacks start pouring in.
I think the best solution is to just avoid public forums. This is the exact reason why so few engineers go on them. It's the guys with the most knowledge, that receive the most attacks.
I usually buy my stuff through a dealer, Goodwin's High End. But the one time I did through a direct seller (I had no other choice) my experience was entirely positive and satisfying far beyond expectations, for a price that was a steal in relation to performance.
The direct buy were BorderPatrol external power supplies for my amps, my extensive review is here:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...trol-MB-external-power-supplies-for-tube-amps
Gary Dews who made these units was great throughout. Once one of the two units failed, and while still keeping it under full warranty, Gary told me to try to fix it myself; it could have been a loose tube. So I did open it up myself, checked everything for tight connection, and voila, it worked again. Gary said it would have been silly to ship back and forth just for this issue, and that he liked hands-on clients.
***
So no qualms from me about direct sellers.
No, you receive attacks because as Lee said, your tone is arrogant and argumentative. Nobody doubts your technical knowledge, but your constant condescension towards gear that you haven't even heard is mindboggling. You haven't even heard SOTA analog, and dismiss it on theoretical 'technical grounds'. If you ever would hear it, it would blow your mind.
A bit of humility would go a long way, Mike, in terms of getting other people to be more open and excited about your suggestions.
Having said that, you cannot accuse me of not being open-minded. I even recommended to Madfloyd to buy the NADAC. So there.
And as I said once again, this tone comes after the attacks become tiresome. But for some reason that's all that's remembered at the end of the day. Not what was said that brought on the tone in the first place.
And it's always the same handful of the same people every time.
You seem to have a selective memory, Mike. You were constantly attacking other gear that you hadn't even heard and other people's opinions first, long before you started this thread. No wonder you had lost a lot of goodwill already.
Again, a bit of humility would go a long way, Mike. You watch your own tone, and you will see how much friendlier the reception of your ideas will become.
A fatal mistake is to assume that one will be granted immediate adoration and acceptance because of one's credentials. In medicine, we constantly are reminded, "Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care."
In music, it's not the song, it's the singer. I implore you to rethink why the reactions are as you have observed and consider adjusting the delivery. We genuinely appreciate the contribution of information. Win the membership's respect, don't demand it.
Lee
In music, it's not the song, it's the singer. I implore you to rethink why the reactions are as you have observed and consider adjusting the delivery. We genuinely appreciate the contribution of information. Win the membership's respect, don't demand it.
Lee
Share some posts. Because my memory is quite good. Everytime there was any negativity from me towards others was because they brought it on.
I disagree Lee; Mike is certainly not arrogant in my book, and my book is solid. :b
Argumentative? The best of the best knowledge acquired on this globe comes from arguments...in check.
What is a fact is this: there are movements, and we don't have to follow them, and it's @ our own risks and perils.
We are free. Free to live our lives with our beliefs, and always respecting what others have to say...movements.
If we can't argue there is no use to live anymore. :b ...Way of speech of course.
Movements, different movements are everywhere, and we adapt to them. New movements from different schools are tough to adapt to/with, and that's life too.
If everyone agree on the same thing, ...
Yeah, we have seen it all. We are aware of the movements...no measurements...only in the scientific threads, listening is the main criteria for gear analysis and judgement.
That's the favorite movement chosen by the people.
I think Mike brings a lot of benefits here, and people are harsh to him...I don't like that, and people were harsh in the past with other great contributors, and I don't like that.
But I adapt to it, because it's part of human weakness (nature). It's easy to blame the other without looking @ ourselves through a mirror. ...We adapt, we accommodate each other as fair as it can be for both parties. And we don't let our emotions take control...never, because we know better.
We listen to the reason, to the logic, to the people. We argue with our best arguments, we take the time to analyse and explore new avenues in our world of music and films.
The gear is not the same in every room, so we know that and the synergy and synchronicity...we know that.
Mike teaches us the quality parts that comprise a quality DAC, a quality speaker's crossover, he brings things that were missing.
His character, style, delivery, our emotional reaction...that's all not part of it. We go above it all and examine the science, the specs, the implementation, the measurements, the objectivity and listening subjectivity. And that, is what makes WBF unique and different...the best from the rest. ...Among other places with other people.
+1000
I doubt though that Mike will listen. It's always someone else's fault, never his own.
For example, from the Chinese DAC thread:
Seems that most people around here buy products for status, rather than sound. Why do you think the turntable threads are so popular. So I wouldn't expect much interest in this. The only way people would take it seriously, is if you put the boards in a new case with a North Amercian or European name on the case, and sold it for 10x the price. Then you would have people raving about it
1. Your arrogance shines through in this post because you assume things about turntables when you clearly have no clue what difference they can make -- you haven't even heard SOTA analog. Again, a bit of humility would go a long way. I assumed stuff about analog too that turned out not to be true once I heard it. But I kept an open mind about it and changed my mind accordingly, following the evidence.
2. You said in this post: "So I wouldn't expect much interest in this." You already assume the worst from your potential audience, not a good way to start.
3. You made that post unprovoked. So YOU were the one who brought on the negativity, not others.
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