Master Built-What are Owners Hearing That They Didn't Hear With Other Cables
- Thread starter Steve Williams
- Start date
Merry Christmas WBF
I wanted to thank Peter who said he would love to try the MB cables but doesn't really want to invest that kind of money. So I respectfully ask WBF members to please only ask for an audition if they are possibly interested in possibly changing cables. I have already sent out cables to a couple different people here on WBF. Both of them are MIT owners. One has already purchased many of the Ultra cables and some others have also purchased many Ultra cables. I just sent 2 sets of Signature interconnects to another WBF member to audition with his MIT cables and Spectral electronics. He is not willing to void his warranty and replace his MIT interconnects and I wouldn't either. So I hope that the Signatures can have a good synergy with his MIT's.
There will most likely be someone who doesn't prefer the MB cables over his current cables. It's just a fact.
As for pricing, the Ultra is MB's most expensive line. The Signature line is half the cost of the Ultra, and the Reference is a little less than half the cost of the Signatures. So MB has high performance cables in the lower price range.
When I went to Steve's yesterday, he was running 2 Reference PC's on his amps. These retail for $4,000 each. I will say we replaced the Reference PC's with the Ultra's that retail for $17,000 each and the sound was not an improvement lol. The Ultra PC's have ZERO break in on them. The Reference PC's were awesome. They also have probably 8 years of break in.
After hearing Steve's system yesterday before we put the Ultra PC's in, you wouldn't think that the system could get any better, it was that good.
The single run Ultra speaker cables used on Steve's system retails for $25,000. Although very expensive, there are several other cables out there costing 2 to 3 times as much. And again, the Signatures are half the price. As time moves on I would like to get some of the other MB lines out there for people to demo. Our relationship with MB started with the first Reference power cord and we were blown away.
I have a mix of Signature and Reference cables on my home system and I love them. I wish I could have Ultra, but even for me they are a little too expensive and I want our new ULTRA 9 speaker which is going to take me awhile to pay off. Eventually I will start adding Ultra interconnects and work my way up.
So I am willing to send demo cables around for members to try understanding that not everyone may have the same findings. I can except this. No different from rotating electronics or speakers. The hope is the MB cables have good synergy with your systems
Happy Holidays WBF
I wanted to thank Peter who said he would love to try the MB cables but doesn't really want to invest that kind of money. So I respectfully ask WBF members to please only ask for an audition if they are possibly interested in possibly changing cables. I have already sent out cables to a couple different people here on WBF. Both of them are MIT owners. One has already purchased many of the Ultra cables and some others have also purchased many Ultra cables. I just sent 2 sets of Signature interconnects to another WBF member to audition with his MIT cables and Spectral electronics. He is not willing to void his warranty and replace his MIT interconnects and I wouldn't either. So I hope that the Signatures can have a good synergy with his MIT's.
There will most likely be someone who doesn't prefer the MB cables over his current cables. It's just a fact.
As for pricing, the Ultra is MB's most expensive line. The Signature line is half the cost of the Ultra, and the Reference is a little less than half the cost of the Signatures. So MB has high performance cables in the lower price range.
When I went to Steve's yesterday, he was running 2 Reference PC's on his amps. These retail for $4,000 each. I will say we replaced the Reference PC's with the Ultra's that retail for $17,000 each and the sound was not an improvement lol. The Ultra PC's have ZERO break in on them. The Reference PC's were awesome. They also have probably 8 years of break in.
After hearing Steve's system yesterday before we put the Ultra PC's in, you wouldn't think that the system could get any better, it was that good.
The single run Ultra speaker cables used on Steve's system retails for $25,000. Although very expensive, there are several other cables out there costing 2 to 3 times as much. And again, the Signatures are half the price. As time moves on I would like to get some of the other MB lines out there for people to demo. Our relationship with MB started with the first Reference power cord and we were blown away.
I have a mix of Signature and Reference cables on my home system and I love them. I wish I could have Ultra, but even for me they are a little too expensive and I want our new ULTRA 9 speaker which is going to take me awhile to pay off. Eventually I will start adding Ultra interconnects and work my way up.
So I am willing to send demo cables around for members to try understanding that not everyone may have the same findings. I can except this. No different from rotating electronics or speakers. The hope is the MB cables have good synergy with your systems
Happy Holidays WBF
The Ultra PC's out of the box yesterday were very good and very polite but lacked the bass slam that I heard with the Reference PC's
I looked at Leif and laughed as I said they sound like crap compared to the Reference. I ran a burn in disk all night and listening this morning there is more air around the strings and the bass is better but still not as good as the Reference PC's
I looked at Leif and laughed as I said they sound like crap compared to the Reference. I ran a burn in disk all night and listening this morning there is more air around the strings and the bass is better but still not as good as the Reference PC's
Give it another cycle....It is a good sign the bass sounded like crap...the crappier the better. In my experience as the more resolution in the lower end greatly effects the performance in the higher frequencies Lot's of fun..
Steve those new racks are amazing. I couldn't believe how much better the imaging was compared to the first time I was there. CMS racks are the BOMB!!!
Between the CMS racks and these cables I am hearing so much further into the music. The sound floor is so low that IMO it is virtually non existent
Hmm....usually the bass comes in and then the high frequencies shed a little edge....maybe 3 cycles. YMMV
PeterA,
On your post #370, I know I have posted my observations ever since I inserted MB signature sc and ultra ic into my main and bedroom systems. Just look up those posts. Gammajo and mountainjoe have also made long posts detailing their experiences. You can read the similarities and differences of our experiences.
On your post #370, I know I have posted my observations ever since I inserted MB signature sc and ultra ic into my main and bedroom systems. Just look up those posts. Gammajo and mountainjoe have also made long posts detailing their experiences. You can read the similarities and differences of our experiences.
I wonder where Sam from Dover (Violetmachan) is at. He along with Robert were the first to go full Ultra. He had posted his experiences here some time ago before the MB stuff got more attention.
Audioblazer, I've heard a lot of good things about Schnerzinger and also Goebel. Too bad they aren't represented here. I have good experience with Argento too. Seems there are quite a few new players out there making in-roads. Another one to supposedly look out for is Chernov from Russia.
Funny anecdote. Kit C a member here and a lurker (speak up Kit!) had one of my fellow but competing distributors at his place and he asked him about improvements he can make to his cables. The visitor known for being brutally frank proceeded to say okay here in system A , that cable does this, that does that so the upper model will do these better, this make and model of these other brands will do this better, so on and so forth. He spies the MB XLRs in system 2. Looks again more closely to verify what they are and says "Don't touch that, keep it". LOL.
Like I said, it's not that big a secret here.
Audioblazer, I've heard a lot of good things about Schnerzinger and also Goebel. Too bad they aren't represented here. I have good experience with Argento too. Seems there are quite a few new players out there making in-roads. Another one to supposedly look out for is Chernov from Russia.
Funny anecdote. Kit C a member here and a lurker (speak up Kit!) had one of my fellow but competing distributors at his place and he asked him about improvements he can make to his cables. The visitor known for being brutally frank proceeded to say okay here in system A , that cable does this, that does that so the upper model will do these better, this make and model of these other brands will do this better, so on and so forth. He spies the MB XLRs in system 2. Looks again more closely to verify what they are and says "Don't touch that, keep it". LOL.
Like I said, it's not that big a secret here.
I wonder where Sam from Dover (Violetmachan) is at. He along with Robert were the first to go full Ultra. He had posted his experiences here some time ago before the MB stuff got more attention.
Audioblazer, I've heard a lot of good things about Schnerzinger and also Goebel. Too bad they aren't represented here. I have good experience with Argento too. Seems there are quite a few new players out there making in-roads. Another one to supposedly look out for is Chernov from Russia.
Funny anecdote. Kit C a member here and a lurker (speak up Kit!) had one of my fellow but competing distributors at his place and he asked him about improvements he can make to his cables. The visitor known for being brutally frank proceeded to say okay here in system A , that cable does this, that does that so the upper model will do these better, this make and model of these other brands will do this better, so on and so forth. He spies the MB XLRs in system 2. Looks again more closely to verify what they are and says "Don't touch that, keep it". LOL.
Like I said, it's not that big a secret here.
The only one I have seen for sale recently was Gavin's here at WBF and IIRC he was selling because he needed a longer cable. They tend to become keepers in owners' systems
MasterBuilt just informed me that they have completed the final formulation for their phono cables. I anxiously await for the first set to try in our system
Is anyone using Masterbuilt cables in a system with speakers with primarily ribbon drivers (e.g., Apogee, Analysis Audio, Genesis)?
Terrific thought Ron
Another question I want to throw out to Master Built users here......has anyone experience with their USB cable which I gather is powered.
The question occurred to me only because some of the MasterBuilt cables' biggest and most prominent fans -- Jack, Jim, you, VSA -- all use dynamic driver speakers.
There certainly is no reason to suspect the MasterBuilt cables would be a mismatch with ribbon drivers, but stranger things in this hobby have happened. It would be nice to have a couple of case studies proving compatibility with ribbon drivers and the achievement of the same amazing results reported in this thread by owners of dynamic driver speakers.
There certainly is no reason to suspect the MasterBuilt cables would be a mismatch with ribbon drivers, but stranger things in this hobby have happened. It would be nice to have a couple of case studies proving compatibility with ribbon drivers and the achievement of the same amazing results reported in this thread by owners of dynamic driver speakers.
Ribbon speakers are typically lower impedance, but with several that don't have to be wired to represent a low load. But the benefits to a bit higher resistance of the MB cables may be more beneficial for ribbons than dynamic drivers in this case.
I would fear not. Ron, I'd certainly give them an audition if I were you.
But USB? Meh, you should NOT be hearing big benefits with one of them; less inferior components associated.
I would fear not. Ron, I'd certainly give them an audition if I were you.
But USB? Meh, you should NOT be hearing big benefits with one of them; less inferior components associated.
Thank you for your reply.
But what does "several that don't have to be wired to represent a low load" mean?
Why do MB cables have higher than typical resistance?
Why would higher resistance cables be relatively better for ribbon drivers than for dynamic drivers?
But what does "several that don't have to be wired to represent a low load" mean?
Why do MB cables have higher than typical resistance?
Why would higher resistance cables be relatively better for ribbon drivers than for dynamic drivers?
When you wire drivers you can do it in parallel or series. Parallel drops the resistance, so two 8ohm drivers become 4ohm, and so forth. Series would take two 4ohm drivers and make them 8ohm. There's a bit more to the choices for a speaker, but the point being is when you have multiple ribbons you can wire them for whatever load you want as you can choose a wiring scheme that's ideal since there's so many combinations possible. My point being they don't present the harder load that potentially could be true for a single unit. But because the drivers themselves can still dip a little, the characteristics of interactions they have with parts in the whole circuit can be still prone to some other undesirable actions. Any little extra resistance in that loop will help stabilize it from potentially poor interactions.
The MB cables, at least the ones using super conductors, are using super conductors at room temp. Their resistance is actually a little higher at room temp than copper. Common laymen thought is that equals bad, but it's not that simple. Fact is the low resistance found in almost any location you can think of in audio equipment runs the chance for causing problems; including but not limited to weak bass, ringing, and more. I don't believe either of us have the patients to put you through electronics school in this thread so I'll leave it at that.
Don't forget that the MB cables have special outer coatings that offset the first concerns people would have with not using the lowest resistance possible. The point is moot, in that the cables aren't collecting noise from having a different resistance value. If the cables where just super conductors they wouldn't perform the way they do; MB creators are no fools. And the difference in resistance could be considerable negligible when you put it into perspective since MB uses larger gauge than typical, and other people out there are using 16ga wire which has more resistance than someone uses 8ga or larger wire.... etc etc.
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