Done with digital

[Ron Resnick]

I emphatically disagree that this is vinyl's "dirty little secret". Ask any collector. If it were true, people would not have huge record collections.

Al alleged "vinyl's dirty little secret." Not me.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Walked into a record store recently and it was abuzz. But I didn't see any audiophiles there. Just normal people buying records.

What percentage of records out there are decent recordings that audiophiles would enjoy?

1%?
5% ?
25%?

Other?

That's a very good point. My friend runs a record store, and audiophiles are like 5-10% of all customers. They are apparently the most annoying of all customers too. Not my words, his
Vinyls are bought by music collectors and lovers most of the time.

 

[PeterA]

Al alleged "vinyl's dirty little secret." Not me.

I realize that and I disagree with it.

 

[PeterA]

I completely agree. Where did I write that plain, average LPs are bad?

Ron, are you right, you did not. I edited my post for clarity.

 

[TooCool4]

All formats can sound good except 8-track and cassette.

I would agree with the 8-Track as I have not heard a good one yet, but I would disagree about Compact Cassette. Done properly Compact Cassette sounds amazing.

 

[wil]

Keep in mind that a digital source for an LP is likely not the same as the one used for the digital release. When we were doing an LP master, we would request a source file that didn't have all the DSP stuff in it; in particular compression. In this way we could cut a better sounding LP, since the digital release is often compressed due to the expectation it will be played in a car.

That’s more to the point, in my view. The source matters more than how it’s played back. Digital done right is not going to sound artificial.

 

[bryans]

Vinyls are bought by music collectors and lovers most of the time.

Absolutely and this is how it always have been regardless of the format. My daughter is part of the non audiophile group that is buying vinyl.

 

[Lee]

I would agree with the 8-Track as I have not heard a good one yet, but I would disagree about Compact Cassette. Done properly Compact Cassette sounds amazing.

Since cassettes run at 1.875 inches per second, I think that is a very difficult argument to make.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

My main problem with digital outside of being sensitive to its noise artifacts is that it sounds too artificial.

it's possible to eliminate digital noise artifacts.



and the recording process has more to do with sounding artificial than the native recording format. garbage in-garbage out. great digital recordings sound great.

And I pointed out that a lot of digital sounds artificial to me too, especially computer-audio based digital (even though, as I emphasized, that can be done right, but that is not often the case, in my experience).

So yes, I don't disagree with you in that sense, there is lots of artificial sounding digital. If you say that all digital sounds artificial, I do have to disagree with you.

agree.

I am done with digital. After having suffered thru every digital format available over the years, and never liking the sound of any of it, I am putting all my time, money and effort into my analog front-ends (turntable and tapedeck).

How many of you have a similar story to tell?

not me. i'm all in on analog, and continue to push my analog efforts higher and higher. those grooves keep delivering too.

yet, same with my digital......amazing how much it's improved. and what are we here for? music? how can we ignore new music on digital? seems very myopic to me. i love to follow the music to where ever it leads regardless of the format.

so why get negative on either?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Al alleged "vinyl's dirty little secret." Not me.

For me, "vinyl's dirty little secret" is that, for classical enthusiasts, there have been no new analog-recorded LPs of standard repertoire released in this century. A few one-off specials carry little weight.

 

[microstrip]

it's possible to eliminate digital noise artifacts.

View attachment 95145

The technique of applying inverse error signals to cancel them in nothing new - Devialet reports its use it in their electronics. IMHO what can make a difference is how it is implemented. Assuming the errors are calculated in real time from the data, is the error subtracted in the analog domain to the signal of the DAC?

 

[TooCool4]

Since cassettes run at 1.875 inches per second, I think that is a very difficult argument to make.

So it's all about measurements? If that's the case then analogue does not get a look in with digital. Forget about the speed, have you heard a good recording made on a quality deck with quality metal cassettes?

 

[microstrip]

Keep in mind that a digital source for an LP is likely not the same as the one used for the digital release. When we were doing an LP master, we would request a source file that didn't have all the DSP stuff in it; in particular compression. In this way we could cut a better sounding LP, since the digital release is often compressed due to the expectation it will be played in a car.

IMHO these are exceptions.The vinyl people are buying is not expensive audiophile stuff. As they are cheap I got a few tittles - they become nice gifts to people going in the vinyl revival. I listened to them - inferior to the CD's in my opinion, but much nice covers.

 

[Audire]

“Vinyl‘s dirty little secret“ is that during this digital age of music, vinyl sales have been steadily increasing for the past 15 years, especially during COVID when people had more time to actually listen …

I didn’t know what I was missing until I came back to vinyl. WOW what a difference! And with today’s TTs and carts absolutely amazing! Incredible!!! This isn’t saying digital is bad by any means, but it will never be true analogue.

 

[Al M.]

“Vinyl‘s dirty little secret“ is that during this digital age of music, vinyl sales have been steadily increasing for the past 15 years, especially during COVID when people had more time to actually listen …

I didn’t know what I was missing until I came back to vinyl. WOW what a difference! And with today’s TTs and carts absolutely amazing! Incredible!!! This isn’t saying digital is bad by any means, but it will never be true analogue.

And so will not digital sourced LPs ever be true analogue. Yet these are the bulk of the vinyl revival "in this digital age" that you laud in the first part of your post.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The technique of applying inverse error signals to cancel them in nothing new - Devialet reports its use it in their electronics. IMHO what can make a difference is how it is implemented. Assuming the errors are calculated in real time from the data, is the error subtracted in the analog domain to the signal of the DAC?

the general idea may be nothing new, and how Wadax eliminates digital artifacts might be completely different from the misIC feed-forward error correction process. that could just be a smoke screen. but however they pull it off....it works big time.

i guess we need you to directly A/B your Devialet with the Wadax combo to see which one actually does eliminate digital artifacts.

directly comparing the Wadax to the MSB Select II it's clear the very significant difference where one has those digital artifacts and one does not. maybe somehow the Devialet is much much better than the MSB Select II at this? but i seriously doubt it.

 

[microstrip]

the general idea may be nothing new, and how Wadax eliminates digital artifacts might be completely different from the misIC feed-forward error correction process. that could just be a smoke screen. but however they pull it off....it works big time.

i guess we need you to directly A/B your Devialet with the Wadax combo to see which one actually does eliminate digital artifacts.

directly comparing the Wadax to the MSB Select II it's clear the very significant difference where one has those digital artifacts and one does not. maybe somehow the Devialet is much much better than the MSB Select II at this? but i seriously doubt it.

We know since long that in this hobby the proof of the pudding is in the eating. However knowledge of details can help us understanding the sound characteristics - and we can't expect everyone to prefer the Wadax approach.

BTW, no one was comparing gear - I was just addressing the technical details. And I never owned Devialet for the main system, although I spent sometime with the last and much improved version.

 

[thedudeabides]

I think vinyl people would also counter that, in their view, it is easier to get emotionally-engaging sound with a modest vinyl replay set-up than it is with a modest digital replay set-up.

Well of course they are because they are prejudiced. What a silly, indefensible, pretentious generalization albeit typical for this type of thread.

How can anyone know what causes other people to become emotionally involved? Looks like the troll got the desired effect.

 

[Audire]

And so will not digital sourced LPs ever be true analogue. Yet these are the bulk of the vinyl revival "in this digital age" that you laud in the first part of your post.

As many here have taught me you have to know what kind of vinyl to purchase and from where. Those who know, know and others, whether knowingly or unknowingly, may compromise.

PS: some reissues from digital to vinyl do sound awesome - in some cases even better than their digital counterparts.

 

[brad225]

On another site he said he currently uses an old laptop for his digital system. Even that can't be dedicated to the system.
His budget is less than a $1000. There is nothing wrong with having a lower budget but to say you are never going to listen to digital again when it never had a chance seems odd.
If I wrong, my apologies to those offended.