Digitalitis

[Audire]

Does anyone suffer from Digitalitis when the music is recorded digitally ie, Digital to Analogue ?

Is Vinylitis a thing too? Some sensitive to clicks and pops.?

I guess I have to go to the audio lost and found store. What pops and clicks? We literally don't have them, unless it is a very very old record. The guy running our local record shop and playing his $1200 TT while we shop doesn’t have them either. Lots of us don’t have them. Try Analogmagic for your setup. It’s all in the set up and having clean no static vinyl.

If digital was the cat‘s meow then why does everyone try to make their digital sound more analogue?

The human ear is analogue. It’s simply the way people hear. Even the human voice is an example of analogue signal.

The difference between analogue and digital waves is that analog waves are smooth and continuous and digital waves are stepping, square and. When something intervenes with the original reverberations of a collection of notes as the brain seems to with digital, a part of the music is lost. Digital waves put a separation between the live performer and the listener, as if losing a ‘connection’ to the underlying and true ‘feel’ of the performance. Analog on the other hand represents a physical impression of the original live performance, which offers a direct link between the performer ‘at that very moment’ and the recording. https://www.blueaura.co.uk/human-ear-prefer-analog-digital-sound/

People naturally tire of hearing Digitalitis math (1s & 0s).

There’s just something unnatural with digital sound. It’s come a long way - and ours sounds excellent - but it’s simply not vinyl. Digital and vinyl are simply two different sounds, two different approaches to listening to music. They can both be excellent. For us one is king (digital), and the other (vinyl) is the King of kings.

 

[Yuen A.]

Hi guys, I think we are talking about listening fatigue due to unnatural hardness, glare, congestion of the sounds of early or badly recorded digital recordings. I can hear it on many 'Red Book' recordings and/or Digital to Analog converters. Currently, I listened only to excellent high resolution recordings or SACDs via my EMM Labs DV2 and they sounded like the real thing.

 

[Don_Camillo]

Well, first of all, everyone should understand that there is no universal listening experience. This is always individual and therefore every person feels a record or CD differently, no matter how and with what it is played. Philosophizing about what causes this difference in sensitivity requires extremely lengthy and expensive training as a psychiatrist, medical doctor and social worker. So we're not going to resolve that topic among old men and know-it-alls who are used to calling their own system the non plus ultra.

 

[Audire]

Hi guys, I think we are talking about listening fatigue due to unnatural hardness, glare, congestion of the sounds of early or badly recorded digital recordings. I can hear it on many 'Red Book' recordings and/or Digital to Analog converters. Currently, I listened only to excellent high resolution recordings or SACDs via my EMM Labs DV2 and they sounded like the real thing.

I agree with you that the EMM sounds like the real thing. We love ours. But our vinyl still sounds a step above our digital.

I’m old, so I grew up listening to vinyl - before digital even existed. It’s natural sound to me. So this may be one reason I still enjoy vinyl more.

 

[Thundersnow]

So wait a second. I was at a John Legend concert yesterday. He was singing and playing a piano, doing “Bridge Over Troubled Water”. His mic and the piano mics were going through two million DSPs and playing out of the line array. Do you mean to tell me that somehow this performance was less emotionally engaging than (in theory) the sound going through an all-analogue setup? I think we are stuck a little too much in our own audiophile bubbles.

 

[Al M.]

Hi guys, I think we are talking about listening fatigue due to unnatural hardness, glare, congestion of the sounds of early or badly recorded digital recordings. I can hear it on many 'Red Book' recordings and/or Digital to Analog converters. Currently, I listened only to excellent high resolution recordings or SACDs via my EMM Labs DV2 and they sounded like the real thing.

If Redbook playback gives you the problems of unnatural hardness, glare and congestion on a regular basis, then perhaps some optimization is required.

 

[davidavdavid]

To quote the venerable Dr Switzer as evidenced here in this linked video:

(copy and paste)

Just STOP it! If one finds themselves affected by digitaitis, simply move on from digital and stick to analogue. Life is far too short, and Hi-Fi is far too much of an enjoyable pastime to flog this ...

The time taken to read through this particular thread can best be far better spent:

1 - listening to music
2 - spending time with loved ones
3 - going out for a walk
4 - sitting down for a good nosh
5 - breathing

Note: tube rolling and lying prostrate in the presence of a Horn speaker are NOT on the list.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Is Vinylitis a thing too? Some sensitive to clicks and pops.?

I think this is a fair question. However, I don't think it's analogous to the rainbow effect analogy.

With both the rainbow effect analogy and the digitalitis theory we are considering an ever-present situation in the viewing (rainbow effect) context or the listening (digitalitis) context which I am theorizing some humans are sensitive to and others are not.

I feel like the sporadic nature of ticks and pops on vinyl is just not the same kind of phenomenon as the continuousness and ever-present nature of the rainbow effect or of digitalitis.

Of course people can find ticks and pops annoying and distracting. I find ticks and pops annoying and distracting. But I don't think it's the same kind of innate physiological phenomenon as is at work with the rainbow effect or, possibly, with digitalis.

 

[Ron Resnick]

If Redbook playback gives you the problems of unnatural hardness, glare and congestion on a regular basis, then perhaps some optimization is required.

I agree with you, Al. But I am postulating a more fundamental, innate kind of reaction to digital sound, rather than just the subjective preference about the frequency balance or brightness one hears from listening to digital, and which one could adjust or remedy in our usual system balancing or component matching sort of way.

 

[wil]

Does anyone suffer from Digitalitis when the music is recorded digitally ie, Digital to Analogue ?

Is Vinylitis a thing too? Some sensitive to clicks and pops.?

I am not making this up:

Last night, I was enjoying some musical 1’s and 0’s when I started to hear a faint and random click sound. It instantly reminded me of LP noise and filled me with anxiety. Was my Dac somehow morphing into a turntable?

To my great relief, I discovered it was a small screw that somehow attached itself to the magnet on my eye-glasses frame.

 

[HughP3]

I think this is a fair question. However, I don't think it's analogous to the rainbow effect analogy.

With both the rainbow effect analogy and the digitalitis theory we are considering an ever-present situation in the viewing (rainbow effect) context or the listening (digitalitis) context which I am theorizing some humans are sensitive to and others are not.

I feel like the sporadic nature of ticks and pops on vinyl is just not the same kind of phenomenon as the continuousness and ever-present nature of the rainbow effect or of digitalitis.

Of course people can find ticks and pops annoying and distracting. I find ticks and pops annoying and distracting. But I don't think it's the same kind of innate physiological phenomenon as is at work with the rainbow effect or, possibly, with digitalis.

Hi Ron, you hear what you hear. Sucks that digital does that for you. But i must say the constant clicks/pops and hash noise of vinyl was a major contributor for me giving up on analog all together. It can go both ways.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron, you hear what you hear. Sucks that digital does that for you. But i must say the constant clicks/pops and hash noise of vinyl was a major contributor for me giving up on analog all together. It can go both ways.

I understand, Hugh. I totally respect the reaction that hearing ticks and pops destroys the illusion and the suspension of disbelief.

But I am puzzled that you write that you experienced "constant clicks/pops and hash." That definitely should not be the case with new or mint records cleaned by an ultrasonic cleaning machine.

 

[microstrip]

I guess I have to go to the audio lost and found store. What pops and clicks? We literally don't have them, unless it is a very very old record. The guy running our local record shop and playing his $1200 TT while we shop doesn’t have them either. Lots of us don’t have them. Try Analogmagic for your setup. It’s all in the set up and having clean no static vinyl.

Yes, it is possible to have vinyl without pops and clicks. But sourcing clean vinyl is not a simple affair for most people.

If digital was the cat‘s meow then why does everyone try to make their digital sound more analogue?

IMHO it is not true, except in some audio forums and some marketing literature.

The human ear is analogue. It’s simply the way people hear. Even the human voice is an example of analogue signal.

Bravo! Can I tell you that the output of a DAC is an example of an analog signal? It is the purpose of the analog filter used in the output of the DAC. During a long time the anti-digital people complained about the reduced bandwidth and low bit resolution of red book. After we got HiRez they had to change to digitalitis or similar.

People naturally tire of hearing Digitalitis math (1s & 0s).

There’s just something unnatural with digital sound. It’s come a long way - and ours sounds excellent - but it’s simply not vinyl. Digital and vinyl are simply two different sounds, two different approaches to listening to music. They can both be excellent. For us one is king (digital), and the other (vinyl) is the King of kings.

We should use the proper arguments to discuss digital, not folklore. People go to live concerts and listen to synthesized (digital) instruments and do not take pills to enjoy them. Modern microphones have wireless digital links and sound great. But yes, digital does not have the vinyl artifacts and is currently able to carry more information than vinyl. How sound engineers and designers use these characteristics creates two different approaches to stereo. BTW, I have read that some people prefer listening to digital recordings recorded in analog tape.

 

[Ron Resnick]

What pops and clicks? We literally don't have them,

I think this is disingenuous. Occasional ticks and pops and surface noise hash are a part of vinyl playback life.

 

[Ron Resnick]

After we got HiRez they had to change to digitalitis or similar.

No; you are mixing up two things.

The subjectively bad sound of early digital of brightness, brittleness, sharpness and dryness has improved enormously.

Now that those sonic nasties have been largely vanquished, I am wondering if the residual discomfort or fatigue from digital -- for some people -- actually is something more fundamental and physiology based.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

No; you are mixing up two things.

The subjectively bad sound of early digital of brightness, sharpness, dryness, etc., has improved enormously.

Now that those sonic nasties have been largely vanquished, I am wondering if the residual discomfort or fatigue from digital -- for some people -- actually is something more fundamental and physiology based.

maybe Ron, this is a form of Aversion Therapy.

where you were trained to associate digital with a negative physical reaction, and are now not able to eliminate that.

and now, even unsighted, when you hear what might be a digital presentation it triggers more than just a sonic reaction.

 

[microstrip]

No; you are mixing up two things.

The subjectively bad sound of early digital of brightness, sharpness, dryness, etc., has improved enormously.

Now that those sonic nasties have been largely vanquished, I am wondering if the residual discomfort or fatigue from digital -- for some people -- actually is something more fundamental and physiology based.

I was answering to a particular post, not to your challenging proposal. Unfortunately, as there are general differences in both formats that are due to recording and mastering, not to "1"s or "0"'s, it is very hard to carry experiments that could confirm your theory. IMHO real time microphone feed experiments are the only media that could approach top digital technical qualities.

 

[wil]

If Redbook playback gives you the problems of unnatural hardness, glare and congestion on a regular basis, then perhaps some optimization is required.

Exactly.

 

[Ron Resnick]

maybe Ron, this is a form of Aversion Therapy.

where you were trained to associate digital with a negative physical reaction, and are now not able to eliminate that.

and now, even unsighted, when you hear what might be a digital presentation it triggers more than just a sonic reaction.

I'm open to all possibilities, Mike.

1) I appreciate that this is my thread, but I don't think this should be personalized uniquely to me. I think plenty of audiophiles for whom digital is not their natural sonic preference will understand what I'm talking about. And if I am wrong that plenty of audiophiles will understand what I'm talking about, then what I am terming digitalitis is not a ubiquitous physiological phenomenon.

2) What are you theorizing "trained" me to associate digital with a negative physical reaction?

 

[HughP3]

I understand, Hugh. I totally respect the reaction that hearing ticks and pops destroys the illusion and the suspension of disbelief.

But I am puzzled that you write that you experienced "constant clicks/pops and hash." That definitely should not be the case with new or mint records cleaned by an ultrasonic cleaning machine.

I used a Degritter and it did help. But I still heard background hash on every album severity depending on volume and quite passages. Since i was starting over with vinyl, most of my albums were new, many were were audiophile pressings. Yes it was odd with such good equipment in place. My better half was in agreement as i made her endure yet more come listen tests. Maybe tape but that’s another Pandora’s.

ps i had a very good setup guy come over 3 times. He heard the same. He had a test album with grooves but no music. Perfectly quiet. We eventually just agreed the system picked up every darn thing