Various DAC Audition Impressions

[pk_LA]

Hey @pk_LA are you clear on the connection scheme for the DD using the ProISL/USB? That is what I would like to see. I have read everything I could find and have had email with MSB, but it isn't clear (to me). Are you solid on that?

I am not. I don't have anymore information than you do. I am basing this on pictures and articles!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Everyone,



First, I would like to be very clear and say that we are the Aries Cerat North American distributor/importers for Canada and the US.



My personal testing goes back more than 40 years and I have been A/B testing different audio products with five other extremely knowledgeable audiophiles for the past 20 years. Some of the most interesting A/B testing that we have done is on DAC’s and on servers/streamers. The systems that we are doing this testing on are not your average systems and the least expensive system is $200,000 but a couple of the systems are getting close to $1 million. When we do our testing, we make sure that the rooms are set up properly and that everything from the panel right out to the speakers have as little effect on the overall test results as possible.



We have done direct A/B testing on the Lampizator Horizon, Select 2, Aries Cerat Helene, Aries Cerat Kassanda Reference 2 and Aries Cerat Kassandra Signature. Altogether we have A/B tested almost 100 different DAC’s. There were lots of disappointments and to be honest with you if you are using analog as your reference there were very few DAC’s that have the harmonics or resolution of a turntable. However, when you add in a world-class server/streamer then this can be the game changer and get you much closer to an analog sounding front-end. By adding in a very high-quality server/streamer then you are essentially allowing the DAC to perform at a much higher level. Unfortunately, again there are very few world-class server/streamers. We found that when the server/streamer was set up proper and we used euphony and stylus with a lossless format that we could obtain an almost analog sound with the properly matched world class DAC and the very essential digital cable between the two devices. Without a world class server/streamer you will never achieve the ambience or the nuances of the original recording. It is a combination of a great DAC and a world-class server streamer with a well designed digital cable that allows a digital front end to have the harmonics and resolution of a properly set up turntable. Analog setups and digital setups are extremely difficult to get correct but once you achieve a world-class front end then you are one step closer to hearing the original recording as it was produced at the recording studio. In my opinion this should be everybody’s goal.



We do not advertise with what’s best forum so our results were definitely different then the co-owner/Ron and I hope that this post can stay up and running even though our results were different. As an importer/distributor we have criteria’s when we decide were going to import certain products from Europe. One of the main criteria is build quality. The Aries Cerat 132-pound Kassandra Reference DAC is the best built DAC that we have experienced and all Aries Cerat products are built to last decades. If you look at build quality among the DAC’s that Ron tested there would be no comparison. Next if we start to talk about sound quality and use analog as our reference we do agree with some of the references that Ron used in his post and I felt that it was well worded. However, I would say that if Ron had put the DAC’s side-by-side and did the direct comparisons that we did, then the outcome would be slightly different as it was in our testing. I would be happy to invite Ron to my place in Canada or if California is closer to our store that is properly set up in the California area. I would also be interested to see what would happen when Ron tested the Aries Cerat Signature which retails for roughly the same price as the Horizon versus testing the Aries Cerat Reference model that retails for half the price of the Horizon. When we did our testing the Aries Cerat Reference had more detail than the Horizon, more accurate bass and deeper bass than the Horizon and is much better built than the Horizon. There was also major difference in terms the musically but that could be a long conversation so I will save it for another time.



The last thing I would like to say is that audio can be personal preference. I personally like to find reference equipment that allows me to get closer to the original recording. I know I’m getting closer to the original recording when I can hear the ambience in the recording studio. There are little nuances that will happen in recordings that just aren’t there until you take that next step closer in terms of sound quality. There’s an old saying I like to use “you don’t know what you don’t know “. The truth is I have learned a huge amount about audio from listening to world class audio designers and in my opinion the owner of Aries Cerat is possibly one of the most brilliant audio designers in the industry today.



All the Best Robert Neill

Dear Robert,

Thank you for your comments.

I, too, wish pk_LA and I had had the Kassandra side-by-side with the Horizon!

I think your suggestion that advertising had anything to do with my reported listening impressions is unfounded and unfair.

Thank you for your invitation to audition the Aries Cerat Signature. Would this be a situation where I could compare the Aries Cerat Signature directly, side-by-side, with a Lampizator Horizon?

Best wishes,

Ron

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear Robert,

I just checked the WBF header on my iPhone, and I discovered that five of the eight DAC companies in the survey advertise on WBF.

Two of the five advertisers make the DACs about which I reported — in this particular system and in this particular room — the least positive listening impressions. I submit that there is no correlation between advertising on WBF and my reported listening impressions.

 

[worldwide]

Hi Ron,

In my opinion and this is just an opinion, audio can be very subjective but I do believe there are some variables that can be controlled. When we do our testing, as I mentioned, it is done on six different systems and when the results are exactly the same on all six systems then we have to respect those results. Once we are done our testing and if the results are positive results than we import that manufacturer. We tested Aries Cerat for almost 6 months before deciding to work and import product from that particular manufacturer.

We did A/B test Lampizator and we did consider importing that manufacturer.

We would absolutely enjoy an unbiased direct A/B test comparing the Aries Cerat Signature and the Lampizator Horizon. Please let me know when you would like to visit and we will make all the appropriate arrangements. Please find my number below and please feel free to contact me.

Bob 5196199924

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron,

In my opinion and this is just an opinion, audio can be very subjective but I do believe there are some variables that can be controlled. When we do our testing, as I mentioned, it is done on six different systems and when the results are exactly the same on all six systems then we have to respect those results. Once we are done our testing and if the results are positive results than we import that manufacturer. We tested Aries Cerat for almost 6 months before deciding to work and import product from that particular manufacturer.

We did A/B test Lampizator and we did consider importing that manufacturer.

We would absolutely enjoy an unbiased direct A/B test comparing the Aries Cerat Signature and the Lampizator Horizon. Please let me know when you would like to visit and we will make all the appropriate arrangements. Please find my number below and please feel free to contact me.

Bob 5196199924

Thank you very much, Bob. I will be contacting you.

 

[LL21]

Game on! Look forward to reading about this one!

 

[bryans]

This topic has gone into never land. The OP got together a bunch of gear, put it in their system and based on HIS ears, decided which one was best for him. Not which one was best for anyone else. Clearly this is an issue for some. Because someone chooses product A over another product doesn't mean the other products are bad. He just chose one he likes.

I need to make a public service announcement. If you demo gear and pick the one you like, don't tell anyone.

People everyone likes different things.

 

[PeterA]

I need to make a public service announcement. If you demo gear and pick the one you like, don't tell anyone.

People everyone likes different things.

I commend Patrick for starting this thread. I wonder if others will start similar ones after seeing how this has gone.

 

[Argonaut]

This topic has gone into never land. The OP got together a bunch of gear, put it in their system and based on HIS ears, decided which one was best for him. Not which one was best for anyone else. Clearly this is an issue for some. Because someone chooses product A over another product doesn't mean the other products are bad. He just chose one he likes.

I need to make a public service announcement. If you demo gear and pick the one you like, don't tell anyone.

People everyone likes different things.

Oh please ! do not attempt to be so diffidently obtuse with regard to this thread … it is quite obvious that various parties with interests beyond the mere curious will meld these *results* to their own advantage.

 

[bryans]

I commend Patrick for starting this thread. I wonder if others will start similar ones after seeing how this has gone.

Good point.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I, for one, have no issues with how this thread has gone. Questions, answers, agreements, disagreements, contentiousness, partisanship, resolutions, debates. I think this is all reasonable and predictable.

 

[Ron Resnick]

---

. . . Because someone chooses product A over another product doesn't mean the other products are bad. . . .

+1

 

[bryans]

I, for one, have no issues with how this thread has gone. Questions, answers, agreements, disagreements, contentiousness, partisanship, resolutions, debates. I think this is all reasonable and predictable.

I agree it's predictable. I don’t think telling someone what they should like is reasonable.

 

[Sampajanna]

I can’t say I like the dealer of Aries Cerat accusing Ron of bias based on advertising while he advertises the products he is selling… That said, I enjoyed reading his post and take on things and would love to hear what Ron thinks of such and A/B. I am sure the Aries Cerat are great. I heard one and it was excellent.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

SW1X and Aries Cerat Kasandra Ref are both Entry Level,

Whilst the Lampizator is Reference, the DCS Apex and the MSB.,

So we comparing the Entry level from one company to the very best of another??

 

[Phantom-Audio]

A better comparison of DACs is that one should all be done on the Same Server/Streamer and cables via USB. No Proprietary link connection!

Kinda unfair to compare a Top of Line product from one manufacturer to an Entry level of another. The Dacs should all be on a similar price level.

Both SW1X and Aries Cerat have much higher level DACs within the Price Range of a Lampizator Horizon and DCS Apex. So this is unfair already.

The Aries Cerat Homerus DAC can be compared to the WADAX as the Uber-level gear.

 

[Argonaut]

I agree it's predictable. I don’t think telling someone what they should like is reasonable.

I would be grateful if you could direct me to the post(s) where this has been written, as I do not recall these remarks within the body of this thread !

 

[tima]

I would be grateful if you could direct me to the post(s) where this has been written, as I do not recall these remarks within the body of this thread !

Maybe you're reading him to say something he did not.

 

[Charlie B.]

When you're dealing with these gentlemen, you know that you will get high value products (no matter the price level) backed up by the highest level of professionalism.

I would add Lukasz Fikus aka Lampizator for one to the list ...

 

[Argonaut]

When you're dealing with these gentlemen, you know that you will get high value products (no matter the price level) backed up by the highest level of professionalism.

I would also like to unreservedly propose Stavros Danos Chief designer and owner of Aries Cerat in this regard.