Whither Audio Research

[Big Dog RJ]

To tooob or not to tooob, that is the question!
Woof!

 

[Tuckers]

Saved and new ARC

This really reads like they brought on a new hired gun, who doesn't have ownership or ultimate authority. Who is behind it, and where is the necessary capital coming from? Without more info, this is meaningless.

 

[jadis]

Is there any scientific basis for the amp to sound better by removing the grill cover? I prefer its sound without grill.

 

[Another Johnson]

Is there any scientific basis for the amp to sound better by removing the grill cover? I prefer its sound without grill.

If you are referring to tube cages (grill covers are on speakers), the tube cages do a couple of things. First, they’re for safety. They protect you, your guests, and your pets from the tubes. Second, they protect the tubes from you.

Tube cages are just perforated casework. And casework can affect amp sound because its presence or absence changes the natural frequencies. It adds mass, and it changes stiffness. So the mounting tranquility of the amps parts can vibrate more, or less, and at different frequencies, depending on the fixing of the cage.

CJ had once been helping me troubleshoot some amps, and after we’d sorted it out, I commented that I was confident in the fix, so I’d put the tube cages back on. The comment from CJ was “Most of our owners leave them off.”

Sometimes you find CJ amps up for sale missing their cages because the cages were viewed as “extra expendable stuff” by a former owner.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Correct! Also just to add, if your amplifiers have a large bank of tubes, this means more heat. For example, the average number of output tubes in push-pull config on ultra linear mode of say around 60w may comprise of just 4 output tubes. Anything above that number, say 10 to 16 tubes or 8 / 10 power tubes per monoblock, may put out anything between 100 to 300w per channel, this is far more excessive heat. In which case, with the covers off, will certainly have better ventilation. I guess that's why ARC still uses cooling fans at the rear of their high powered amplifiers.

Nice to see that ARC's back in the saddle. Now they just need to figure out the product line-up, and decide moving forwards, which ones to continue with and which ones to drop... you can't offer everything and end up in debt again. Definitely don't want that! Interesting to see where they're headed within the next decade. Good thing to know that the new owner has good intentions and respects this Iconic brand. After all, it has such a rich history why mess it up.

Cheers to ARC, now go forth my son and sell those big beautiful amps!
Woof! RJ

 

[Another Johnson]

This really reads like they brought on a new hired gun, who doesn't have ownership or ultimate authority. Who is behind it, and where is the necessary capital coming from? Without more info, this is meaningless.

Unless you’re the debt collector, or the judge, or the receiver, it really doesn’t matter how you interpret it. Unless you’re in the aforementioned group, none of it affects you. Let these parties sort out their laundry without kibitzing from gossiping parties far from the perimeter. My take on it, also irrelevant, is that Val Cora looks like solid backing with business acumen, with good intentions, and pockets deep enough to back them up.

 

[jadis]

If you are referring to tube cages (grill covers are on speakers), the tube cages do a couple of things. First, they’re for safety. They protect you, your guests, and your pets from the tubes. Second, they protect the tubes from you.

Tube cages are just perforated casework. And casework can affect amp sound because its presence or absence changes the natural frequencies. It adds mass, and it changes stiffness. So the mounting tranquility of the amps parts can vibrate more, or less, and at different frequencies, depending on the fixing of the cage.

CJ had once been helping me troubleshoot some amps, and after we’d sorted it out, I commented that I was confident in the fix, so I’d put the tube cages back on. The comment from CJ was “Most of our owners leave them off.”

Sometimes you find CJ amps up for sale missing their cages because the cages were viewed as “extra expendable stuff” by a former owner.

Yes, cage. Over here we loosely call it grill, like a barbecue grill. Yes, it is for what you mentioned. But having no little kids and pets, I have not been putting them on ever since, even on the Jadis JA200, I was told by the dealer to remove them if I have lone access in my listening room. So I am glad to hear that indeed it can affect the sound. I want to put back the ARC160s cage because the cage is huge and occupies space in my room but upon putting it back, the sound became compressed, so I took it off again. I also noticed that with the cage, the area above the power tubes gets really hot. That is understandable. I lived with 2 ARC models that had no cage included - VS 110 and VS 115.

 

[Another Johnson]

Yes, cage. Over here we loosely call it grill, like a barbecue grill. Yes, it is for what you mentioned. But having no little kids and pets, I have not been putting them on ever since, even on the Jadis JA200, I was told by the dealer to remove them if I have lone access in my listening room. So I am glad to hear that indeed it can affect the sound. I want to put back the ARC160s cage because the cage is huge and occupies space in my room but upon putting it back, the sound became compressed, so I took it off again. I also noticed that with the cage, the area above the power tubes gets really hot. That is understandable. I lived with 2 ARC models that had no cage included - VS 110 and VS 115.

I’ve seen what you mention, ie tube cages/grill covers that are optional at the original purchase. I guess I’m the kinda guy who would buy them for completeness, even though I’d store them.

RJ makes good points too. And on the issue of the cooling, ARC used to clump their tubes in one part of the box, and then add a fan to draw air across them. CJ has historically spread the tubes out more.

If you have an amp that needs forced convection cooling, like my REF250SEs, then the presence or absence of the cage takes on a whole new level of importance. The cage and fan together establish the air flow pattern. You could test whether things stay cooler with or without the cage using an IR thermometer/camera.

My listening position is far enough away from my amps that the fan noise is only noticeable occasionally. I do like amps that don’t need fans … all other things being equal.

 

[DonH50]

In addition to protection (yours and the tubes) and dust reduction, the cage can also provide additional protection from EMI/RFI (noise) incursion.

 

[jadis]

As I've seen a friend's ARC 250 SE without cage, I would say my 160s without cage looks nicer, cleaner looking without the capacitors and wires exposed. It's like the cage is optional. For the 250se, it's mandatory to put it on, just my preference.

 

[Another Johnson]

In addition to protection (yours and the tubes) and dust reduction, the cage can also provide additional protection from EMI/RFI (noise) incursion.

It could act as a Faraday cage. That could be a plus in some installations.

I’ve got a sniffer, and I have confirmed that it’s not an issue here. I’m in a single family dwelling with large lots separating each residence. The sniffer says there’s nothing to sniff. Nevertheless, I do leave the covers on REF250SEs. I do not know how it sounds when they’re removed.

 

[davidavdavid]

Just when one thought it was safe to come out of the ... this piece appears in Strata-gee. So is it? was it?

Instability is the last thing ARC needs. The last thing the world needs.

https://www.strata-gee.com/audio-research-corp-is-sold-or-is-it/

O

 

[Another Johnson]

Just when one thought it was safe to come out of the ... this piece appears in Strata-gee. So is it? was it?

Instability is the last thing ARC needs. The last thing the world needs.

https://www.strata-gee.com/audio-research-corp-is-sold-or-is-it/

O

I saw that too. Note that the litigants appear to be lighthouse and arc. The affidavit filed by Lighthouse asserts their qualifications to handle the process. It is as if ARC is trying to back out of receivership … and is not sophisticated enough to recognize that they need a lawyer (they’re representing themselves).
A good lawyer would smooth this out for ARC. If they really don’t have one, that’s a very naive approach.

But sit tight on our end still seems like good advice.

 

[davidavdavid]

And then there's this youtube video making the rounds:

 

[Gregadd]

Sounds great.
So the 320 will have twice the power of the 160 with "no more tubes." I look forward to seeing how they accomplish that.

 

[Another Johnson]

Sounds great.
So the 320 will have twice the power of the 160 with "no more tubes." I look forward to seeing how they accomplish that.

It will have the same power tube count as the 250, not the 160.

 

[Another Johnson]

One bit I learned from a tube importer yesterday is that the glass shortage that stopped production at the American owned Russian factory has now been solved. Production has begun again.

However the shipping issues to get product to the West and their Allie’s remain in place.

So no one is making odds at this point.

 

[KeithR]

so the end of the Audio Research world didn't happen? sounds about right.

 

[Gregadd]

It will have the same power tube count as the 250, not the 160.m8nute mark he says they will double thec160

I admit it is confusing.At the 4 minute it says the 250 is thier biggest and. But they will double the 160 to 320. TAteast to these 69 year old ears.
In any event that is( 70-160) a significant increase. Maybe they will go hybrid.
I guess it is already in the works. Maybe we will see it in next year's show season.

 

[Another Johnson]

I admit it is confusing.At the 4 minute it says the 250 is thier biggest and. But they will double the 160 to 320. TAteast to these 69 year old ears.
In any event that is( 70-160) a significant increase. Maybe they will go hybrid.
I guess it is already in the works. Maybe we will see it in next year's show season.

You can see the design here. No need to speculate.

REF320M – Audio Research

audioresearch.com