I think the proper WBF question should be "How often and how do you clean your tubes?"
Whither Audio Research
- Thread starter davidavdavid
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I think the proper WBF question should be "How often and how do you clean your tubes?"
No, your brief summary is misleading and wrong. Unfortunately it seems you failed to understand my main point - the difference between a two level trigger system and a measuring instrument. I have hosted the REF250, an easy and clear job to bias.
I am here for stereo audio, that I consider an interesting and challenging hobby, not for armchair psychology. As you say, Just sayin’. Nuff said.
Anyone who has actually done the bias adjustment on a REF250 knows that you adjust one tube, and then you check to find out what the adjustment did to two others. This is why tube matching is important.
They also know that the perfect alignment of the one adjustment is difficult because of the sensitivity of the screw and the tiny driver head.
You hope that the one adjustment put the bias for all three tubes within the acceptable window. You go through this twice for each monoblock. And the adjustment screws are not easily fit with the driver because of tiny, hidden slotted head of these screws.
Anyone who has done the bias adjustment on a CJ amp knows that each tube is biased with its own pot, and that the screws are sensitive enough to easily get a very clear setting. And the slotted heads are large and visible.
It’s so simple that you can carve your own driving tool out of a chopstick if you lose the plastic driver that CJ provides. You can even make the adjustment with the tube cages installed, although it is easier if the cage has been removed.
Further, ARC’s bias strategy varies from model to model. Some ARC amps are like guitar amps in the sense that the process requires a multimeter. Bias adjustment has always been a special OCD activity in the ARC user community.
CJ has used one approach (LED in the bias circuit) for over 40 years. Simple, reliable, sounds great.
So … why am I running REF250SEs instead of my recently departed LP275Ms? Simple. The REF250SEs sound better as a synergistic part of my current main system. It’s not about simplicity and convenience. It’s about that last sonic bit. In my shootout, ARC beat CJ, and it was CJ’s turf.
If your mileage varies, it’s OK. I do not have any interest in arguing about it.
It is generally not necessary to clean pins. If you power off, and then you insert them, remove them, and insert them again, they are cleaned by friction.
If a socket is corroded, some deoxit might help, but it would be better to replace the socket.
I never pull out tubes just to clean the glass. It's an invitation to disaster from something that is running well.
Saved and new ARC
trackingangle.com
Valerio Cora of Acora Acoustics Corporation to Lead New Corporation For Audio Research Brand
Audio Research and Acora Acoustics will remain separate entities
trackingangle.com
If you’re doing restorations or in a dusty place where there’s open windows, check them visually, and if you’re concerned, shut down, cool down, put on gloves, use a bit of clean compressed air. If you feel warranted by the dust, R&R the tubes and wipe them with a soft microfiber cloth.
FWIW, it is not recommended to be OCD cleaning tubes.
The more times you R&R them, the more you wallow out their sockets. The more you rub or touch them, the closer you get to wearing the printing off.
Generally, if tubes are working and sound good, leave them alone. Once or twice a year check bias. Replace them on schedule.
FWIW, I’ve seen some pretty ratty gesr, especially in the tropics. But with decent windows and good HVAC, my gear just flat never gets “dirty.”
I hope it’s a correct report.Saved and new ARC
Valerio Cora of Acora Acoustics Corporation to Lead New Corporation For Audio Research Brand
Audio Research and Acora Acoustics will remain separate entities
it sounds like things may get back to normal. Thanks for digging this out and sharing.
Some international distributors have announced it at their sites, I think we can rely on it.
Surely we should be very happy that the issue was properly solved, but I have mixed feelings about the new ownership. It is nice to know the owner is an experienced enthusiast designer and manufacturer, but in the past ownership connections between speaker and amplifier manufacturer have some times been problematic at the level of distribution and dealership - for example, Jeff Rowland and Avalon or even ARC and Sonus Faber.
It will be okay as they remain separate businesses.
That is definitely a funny one! Just to add my glory days with BIG tooob amps; VTL Wotans and Ichiban huge! Manley REF350's, and Sonic Frontiers, can't remember the model but all of these were big monoblocks that had an awful lot of tooobs!!!
These amplifiers were owned by me and used during my residency in tropical climes. Hot damn! Talk about bias adjust... it's not even funny. So to begin with, I'd take my T'shirt off and wear a skinny (for those Int'l folk it's referred to as a singlet) also referred to as a wife-beater top in the US, which I was referred to when I lived in Chicago by my dorm mates, although I was not married nor beat anyone's wife!
Then I would sit on a very low level stool and with knees fully bent and head dipped into the damn amp, adjust each of the bloody 16 Output tooobs. Then all of a sudden things get hot, and sweat starts pouring down the sides of my face plus my underpants are getting sticky too... then I call out "wipe!" And my trusted house maid, who is actually a man, then wipes my forehead so that no sweat drops onto the damn tubes... and I cautiously proceed with the bias procedure or as AJ very rightly pointed out, the bloody kabuki dance!
Then each time I would adjust just one output tube with that stupid multi-meter, the other bugger has a hissy fit! It starts going whacko for schmacko... and I have to adjust that one and then finer adjust the previous one. And this merri-go-round goes well over 30mins each monoblock. It's also to do with the crappy AC mains and constant voltage fluctuations we had in Colombo, absolutely horrendous!
Then and only when all tubes have been biased somewhat fairly ok within spec, I open a beer and sit right in front of the amps and drink the bloody thing! Aaah! Nice one Fosters larger!
Then, I actually thank my trusted house chap, open a beer for him as well, after all he did all the wiping... and then I actually have a shower! Because in tropics where the humidity levels are nearing the upper 90%... and biasing large tube monoblocks is generally not a wise thing to do, unless you don't sweat much. If not for the wiping of the forehead constantly, each time I'd bias tooobs, I would have very easily blown out several thanks to excessive sweating! At the end of that while drama, I actually ordered voltage stabilisers from the US of A, based on the advice given by Eve Anne Manley and Luke Manley. They were absolutely right! And the bias Kabuki dance wasn't too shabby, it went from break dancing to the fox trott...
Oh! And very correct about ARC gear, you have to obtain perfectly matched pairs of tubes, nothing else! No way Charlie.
Once all showered and dried up, and everything is squeaky clean including a new pair of undies, then I sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!
That deserves a mighty WOOF!
RJ
Oh! Yes agreed 110%, biasing CJ gear is waaaay easier. I really don't care if it's accurate or not, it just sounds right! Woof!
These amplifiers were owned by me and used during my residency in tropical climes. Hot damn! Talk about bias adjust... it's not even funny. So to begin with, I'd take my T'shirt off and wear a skinny (for those Int'l folk it's referred to as a singlet) also referred to as a wife-beater top in the US, which I was referred to when I lived in Chicago by my dorm mates, although I was not married nor beat anyone's wife!
Then I would sit on a very low level stool and with knees fully bent and head dipped into the damn amp, adjust each of the bloody 16 Output tooobs. Then all of a sudden things get hot, and sweat starts pouring down the sides of my face plus my underpants are getting sticky too... then I call out "wipe!" And my trusted house maid, who is actually a man, then wipes my forehead so that no sweat drops onto the damn tubes... and I cautiously proceed with the bias procedure or as AJ very rightly pointed out, the bloody kabuki dance!
Then each time I would adjust just one output tube with that stupid multi-meter, the other bugger has a hissy fit! It starts going whacko for schmacko... and I have to adjust that one and then finer adjust the previous one. And this merri-go-round goes well over 30mins each monoblock. It's also to do with the crappy AC mains and constant voltage fluctuations we had in Colombo, absolutely horrendous!
Then and only when all tubes have been biased somewhat fairly ok within spec, I open a beer and sit right in front of the amps and drink the bloody thing! Aaah! Nice one Fosters larger!
Then, I actually thank my trusted house chap, open a beer for him as well, after all he did all the wiping... and then I actually have a shower! Because in tropics where the humidity levels are nearing the upper 90%... and biasing large tube monoblocks is generally not a wise thing to do, unless you don't sweat much. If not for the wiping of the forehead constantly, each time I'd bias tooobs, I would have very easily blown out several thanks to excessive sweating! At the end of that while drama, I actually ordered voltage stabilisers from the US of A, based on the advice given by Eve Anne Manley and Luke Manley. They were absolutely right! And the bias Kabuki dance wasn't too shabby, it went from break dancing to the fox trott...
Oh! And very correct about ARC gear, you have to obtain perfectly matched pairs of tubes, nothing else! No way Charlie.
Once all showered and dried up, and everything is squeaky clean including a new pair of undies, then I sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!
That deserves a mighty WOOF!
RJ
Oh! Yes agreed 110%, biasing CJ gear is waaaay easier. I really don't care if it's accurate or not, it just sounds right! Woof!
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This is a MAJOR point that the folks who want to debate don’t understand.
How it sounds is the hill on which it will live or die.
Don’t stutter “But, but, but I read the specs, and checked the measurements, this is better than that.” Sounds like Julian Hirsch.
Back in the ‘60s as Solid State was coming into its own, we studied tried and true tube technology in our first EE course. Semi Conductor technology was in the second course. I was fortunate to have a fellow who was an old hand for the first course, and a brand new PhD who’d done his dissertation in solid state for the second.
Watch out for Mho… don’t let him mess up L(arry) or C(urly) and the CJ LEDs will be fine.
Regarding tube costs, to put it in perspective, consider smoking one decent cigar per day for a year. The annual cost would be in the $2k to $4k range. Consider drinking three bottles of decent wine per week for a year. The annual cost would be in the $2k to $4k range. So in my value system, $2k per year for tubes is well within the manageable range for someone who has the wherewithal to enjoy a modest 6 figure tube based audio system. Obviously we make our own choices, and they're not going to all be the same. YMMV has never been more true.
When you add in things like phono cartridges and vinyl or other hard media purchases, such costs can easily approach $2k per year or more. Streaming with Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon and Roon subscriptions are typically under $1k per year unless you buy a lot of down loads. Deep pockets help in this hobby, but as someone noted above, it is not hard to get "conditioned" to these expenses. I am more concerned about the scarcity of tubes, especially those made in the American owned Russian factory. I hope that this issue can be resolved soon. Tubes are historically very expensive right now, and some appear to be unavailable at any price. For the long term health of tube focused companies like ARC and CJ, this will have to change.
When you add in things like phono cartridges and vinyl or other hard media purchases, such costs can easily approach $2k per year or more. Streaming with Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon and Roon subscriptions are typically under $1k per year unless you buy a lot of down loads. Deep pockets help in this hobby, but as someone noted above, it is not hard to get "conditioned" to these expenses. I am more concerned about the scarcity of tubes, especially those made in the American owned Russian factory. I hope that this issue can be resolved soon. Tubes are historically very expensive right now, and some appear to be unavailable at any price. For the long term health of tube focused companies like ARC and CJ, this will have to change.
Meanwhile, it is certainly good news that Mr. Cora has stepped up as a white knight. I'm certainly going to take a second look at the Acora speaker lineup. And, of course, I remain concerned about a soft landing for all those who had skin in this game. ARC is important to the whole high end industry. Thank you Mr. Cora.
Yes, they had many bias schemes along the years. One of their more interesting designs, the great sounding four power tube per channel VT150 mono block even had some kind of auto bias set up - we adjusted the bias of the main tube and the remaining tubes were adjusted by a bias system based on a differential/integrator ICs circuit. Unfortunately sometimes a faulty tube would take the LF441 IC with it ...
We can easily agree on this one. It is easy to be simple when we consider that putting tubes in parallel is not a critical aspect of design.