With all due respect, Ron. You are more than welcome to think what you will. As you march on, you may discover that there is a whole other world of aspects that affect things beyond the basics mentioned.
Tom
Tom
What's Best in Mid-Tier Cables
- Thread starter KeithR
- Start date
How does this relate to -- if it does relate -- AC polarizing the atoms of a dielectic and the phenomena of dielectic absorption and relaxation? Is that a kind of friction?
I changed my DAC because I went to a performance of Martinu’s second Nonet and when I played a couple of recordings it just didn’t image well enough. I was rather upset. The replacement DAC measures extraordinarily well with a very low noise floor. I was able to do a blind A/B test with the old DAC from the same streamer and, frankly, there was no comparison. Even more impressive was the depth of soundstage with some choral music (Josquin/Missa Hercules Dux Ferrarie). I was using Mogami balanced cables. I have some silver cables, but I’m not convinced they add anything.
^That^ is probably true forr external noise.
There is also internal RF noise that can happen, even though there may not be RF energy in the signal being presented into the amplifier…
I can't say for sure, but it is unfortunately the case that interaction between the dielectric and wire creates noise on an ongoing basis. I think another possibility is the soundwaves produced by the speakers create vibrations in the cable that end up producing noise (due to movement between the dielectric and wire, the friction causes charge buildup due to triboelectric effects). In any case, it's an overlooked issue as wire needs to be electrically insulated and protected from corrosion somehow, and teflon is the lesser evil of all common choices despite it's unfortunate position on the triboelectric scale.
You can easily hear this effect when you move cables around. There's a harshness or edge to the sound after moving that gradually fades away over hours or even days depending on the cable and how much it was handled. Shipping can be a major issue as well, and unfortunately the ribbon wire I use is more affected by this than round wire.
This is also heard as burn-in effects. Part of burn in is the wire mechanically de-stressing after being coiled-up on spools after manufacturing. Spooling compresses part of the dielectric and stretches the opposite side. Naim actually shakes their cables on a purpose built machine to get this out of the way, but in most cases you're looking at burn-in being the result of several issues that are both mechanical and electrical, and I think teflon takes longer to burn in because of it's triboelectric properties, or at least that's one aspect of it.
The new cable I mentioned greatly reduces friction between the wire and dielectric, uses a dielectric that's much closer to silver on the triboelectric scale and has far less dielectric absorption than teflon. The result of this is not subtle!
Sure, but at one point you probably thought your previous DAC wasn't a bottleneck either.. Also, silver cables vary, a good copper cable is better than an average 4N silver cable for example. Silver is hard to get right. With some aspects of system performance it's hard to notice any deficiencies until they are corrected. Two examples are noise and resolution... you often don't recognize noise until it's gone, and you don't recognize more resolution is possible until you do something that allows for increased detail.
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I bought the previous DAC because I wanted a slim combined streamer/DAC. It was wishful thinking. The streamer was OK, I was never happy with the DAC, I actually got better performance from my previous DAC bought in 2016.
The idea that Mogami cables are a bottleneck to imaging and soundstage is not one I have experienced.
The key to the pleasing presentation of music in my listening room is the Luxman L-509X. There are other options from Gryphon, CH Precision, Marantz, Soulution and others. It's not a very low noise floor amplifier at louder levels, but I listen at relatively low levels and my room is very quiet, especially now at 5am. I spoke to a Luxman dealer who told me the Japanese Luxman rep likes coming to the UK because the 230v version sounds that much better than the 100v Japanese/US version. They hinted at some attractive new products for their 100th anniversary next year.
I'm not averse to more expensive analogue cables, and I have some from Dr Sean Jacobs and Oephi, but when I plug in well made and much cheaper cables from Belden/BJC, Supra and Mogami I do wonder what the fuss is all about.
Incidentally, Sean Jacobs only uses good quality copper. Mark Sears at Vinyl Passion uses silver and takes metal quality very seriously, having commissioned some research on the matter. There are two other purveyors of bespoke silver cables in the UK that I know of, Artisan Cables and Yannis Tome.
The idea that Mogami cables are a bottleneck to imaging and soundstage is not one I have experienced.
The key to the pleasing presentation of music in my listening room is the Luxman L-509X. There are other options from Gryphon, CH Precision, Marantz, Soulution and others. It's not a very low noise floor amplifier at louder levels, but I listen at relatively low levels and my room is very quiet, especially now at 5am. I spoke to a Luxman dealer who told me the Japanese Luxman rep likes coming to the UK because the 230v version sounds that much better than the 100v Japanese/US version. They hinted at some attractive new products for their 100th anniversary next year.
I'm not averse to more expensive analogue cables, and I have some from Dr Sean Jacobs and Oephi, but when I plug in well made and much cheaper cables from Belden/BJC, Supra and Mogami I do wonder what the fuss is all about.
Incidentally, Sean Jacobs only uses good quality copper. Mark Sears at Vinyl Passion uses silver and takes metal quality very seriously, having commissioned some research on the matter. There are two other purveyors of bespoke silver cables in the UK that I know of, Artisan Cables and Yannis Tome.
That's a very different question.
My post responded narrowly to a comment suggesting that imperviousness to noise is the most important objective of a cable. My post explored how imperviousness to noise can be achieved quite inexpensively and comprehensively.
I have never written that I personally believe that imperviousness to noise is the most important objective of a cable.
I have replaced some of my Cardas Clear Beyond RCA interconnects with Cardas Clear Reflection RCA interconnects specially ordered with rhodium-free connectors.
I replaced my 47' run of Belden 1192A interconnects with Cardas Clear Reflection RCA interconnects specially ordered with rhodium-free connectors.
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Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
Just for the record, I never said that. It is important but not the MOST important. As far as shielding, it actually varies. In a home environment picking up external noise often isn't much of an issue at all.
I've made identical cables with and without shielding, measured them, and sent them out for evaluation by others.
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Actually I started with, and listened for several months to, David's recommended Belden 1192A XLR for about $100. I prefer the Cardas Clear Reflection RCA.
Impossible to say as I changed amplifiers at the same time XLR --> RCA. I still have the Belden XLRs in the conduit alongside the Cardas RCAs.
As I have gone back-and-forth with things over the months I have the feeling that the Cardas is a little bit more natural. Maybe the Cardas has a touch more decay. Maybe the Belden was a touch rougher sounding.
Thanks. It might be interesting to do a direct comparison without changing other variables to confirm your impressions.
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