Audioquest Niagara question - use in Europe?

L

LarryK

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2018
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I run all of my gear plugged into a Niagara 5000 power conditioner that is plugged into its own dedicated 20A line.

This gear includes a Gryphon Colosseum amplifier plugged into one of the high current outlets and all of my sources and Gryphon Pandora preamp plugged into the other outlets.

If I were to move to Europe, say France, would it be possible to get a version of the Niagara that would run all of my gear as is?
 
AQ offers the N-5000 with 2 types of European power inlets, so it's likely they run on 230-240VAC.
www.audioquest.com

AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner w/ Linear Noise-Dissipation & Non-Sacrificial Surge Protection

Like all AQ power products, Niagara 5000 exemplifies a comprehensive approach to AC power management—one grounded in verifiable science, representing over 20 years of exhaustive research into AC power products designed for audiophiles, broadcast engineers, and professional-audio applications...
www.audioquest.com www.audioquest.com

You might call them. (949) 790-6000
 
jeffreybehr said:
AQ offers the N-5000 with 2 types of European power inlets, so it's likely they run on 230-240VAC.
www.audioquest.com

AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner w/ Linear Noise-Dissipation & Non-Sacrificial Surge Protection

Like all AQ power products, Niagara 5000 exemplifies a comprehensive approach to AC power management—one grounded in verifiable science, representing over 20 years of exhaustive research into AC power products designed for audiophiles, broadcast engineers, and professional-audio applications...
www.audioquest.com www.audioquest.com

You might call them. (949) 790-6000
Click to expand...
So, I would need US plugs on the back but plugging into a European outlet.

Am I asking too much? Does anybody make such a thing?

Otherwise, I have to sell all my gear or see about getting it converted to European voltage.

I think the answer is that I will have to sell all my gear and buy new.

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Last edited:
jeffreybehr said:
AQ offers the N-5000 with 2 types of European power inlets, so it's likely they run on 230-240VAC.
www.audioquest.com

AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner w/ Linear Noise-Dissipation & Non-Sacrificial Surge Protection

Like all AQ power products, Niagara 5000 exemplifies a comprehensive approach to AC power management—one grounded in verifiable science, representing over 20 years of exhaustive research into AC power products designed for audiophiles, broadcast engineers, and professional-audio applications...
www.audioquest.com www.audioquest.com

You might call them. (949) 790-6000
Click to expand...

+1 949 790 6000

LarryK said:
So, I would need US plugs on the back but plugging into a European outlet.

Am I asking too much? Does anybody make such a thing?

Otherwise, I have to sell all my gear or see about getting it converted to European voltage.

I think the answer is that I will have to sell all my gear and buy new.

electronics.stackexchange.com

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Click to expand...
I believe that he is saying an Eu male Schumko plug, into an IEC inlet on the device.
But you need to ensure that the Niagara has the female Schumko plugs.
And hence… the phone call… to AQ-HQ
 
Holmz said:
+1 949 790 6000


I believe that he is saying an Eu male Schumko plug, into an IEC inlet on the device.
But you need to ensure that the Niagara has the female Schumko plugs.
And hence… the phone call… to AQ-HQ
Click to expand...

No.

I’m talking about a device that has female US plugs on the back but plugs into a European outlet.

Of course, it would have to have its own transformer and generate 60Hz.

I don’t think such a thing exists because it would be against code in Europe.
 
LarryK said:
No.

I’m talking about a device that has female US plugs on the back but plugs into a European outlet.

Of course, it would have to have its own transformer and generate 60Hz.

I don’t think such a thing exists because it would be against code in Europe.
Click to expand...

Transformers do not change 50Hz to 60Hz.

I am not sure what makes you think you need the device, but if they do not do an Eu version, then it may be better to find an Eu equivalent.

Is your equipment that goes into it equipped with US plugs?
 
Holmz said:
Transformers do not change 50Hz to 60Hz.

I am not sure what makes you think you need the device, but if they do not do an Eu version, then it may be better to find an Eu equivalent.

Is your equipment that goes into it equipped with US plugs?
Click to expand...

Right, transformers will not change the frequency but there are industrial devices that will do it. Please look at the end of the link I posted.

This will prove too costly, though.

My biggest concern is my Gryhon Colosseum amplifier, which I do no think can be swapped to European voltage, but perhaps I am wrong, I don’t know.

And, yes, all of my gear has US plugs. I am not currently located in Europe.
 
Last edited:
LarryK said:
Right, transformers will not change the frequency but there are industrial devices that will do it. Please look at the end of the link I posted.

This will prove too costly, though.
Click to expand...
All I know is that my gear has instructions for which taps to use for 230v and 110v.

LarryK said:
My biggest concern is my Gryhon Colosseum amplifier, which I do no think can be swapped to European voltage, but perhaps I am wrong, I don’t know.
Click to expand...
Have you reached out to them yet?

LarryK said:
And, yes, all of my gear has US plugs.
Click to expand...
I sort of had the same drama with power tools.
I have mostly 230v, but they run on 50 or 60 Hz.

If someone was starting from scratch, with some future intent of a possibility of an international move, then 230v system with a dedicated “drier” outlet in the US makes some sense.

LarryK said:
I am not currently located in Europe.
Click to expand...
You could move the gryphon on, or put it into storage, and the run some other amp in Europe?

All my newer gear has provision for 110/230v with some jumpers.
That was mostly because I don’t like to run a transformer.

However, I am not sure that the “Don’t like” makes sense, as it is possible that the 230–>110v transformer provide some filtering or isolation It sounds just fine with the US gear.
 
Holmz said:
You certainly could.
Whether you need it or not, seems uncertain… and it is hard to know ahead of time.

Do the amps really not have taps for running them on 230v?
Click to expand...

Gryphon states:

“Our products are built specifically to the mains voltage stated on the serial number label. It cannot be changed.”

so, their position is that the voltage cannot be changed.

Is there a problem running the Niagara 5000 on a step down transformer? I will write AudioQuest.

What do people think of this step down transformer?

rockstonepower.com

ROCKSTONE POWER 5000 Watt Voltage Converter Transformer - Heavy Duty Step Up/Down AC 110V/120V/220V/240V Power Converter - Circuit Breaker Protection – DC 5V USB Port - CE Certified [3-Year Warranty]

5000 Watts Heavy Duty Step Up/Down Voltage Transformer Converter. Step Up Voltage from 110-120 Volts to 220-240 Volts. Step Down Voltage from 220-240 Volts to 110-120 Volts. Patented Simultaneous 3-Mode Output: 5V USB Port / 120V USA Output Socket / 220V Universal Output Socket. CE Certified...
rockstonepower.com
 
Every few I have tried all seemed to work about the same.
They might even cut some higher frequency stuff on the line???
(Never tested it, but it seems possible. And it just sounded fine on different amps.)
 
Holmz said:
Every few I have tried all seemed to work about the same.
They might even cut some higher frequency stuff on the line???
(Never tested it, but it seems possible. And it just sounded fine on different amps.)
Click to expand...

Could you tell me your setup? Which ones id you try?

I would have a Gryphon Colosseum amplifier, Gryphon Pandora preamp, Michell GyroDec turntable, Aqua Formula DAC, and Accuphase T-1000 tuner plugged into a Niagara 5000 power conditioner which would be plugged into the step down converter.
 
It was an Australian transformer, but likely the same, or similar to Eu ones.
It is not a difficult thing, as it just steps the voltage down. You already have at least 2 or 3 between the power station and you house, and no one other than an electrician even thinks about them.

As far as brand, I am not sure, as they are now in shipping container.
They are just big humming grey boxes… maybe 8” x8” x 16” high.
At one house we were in for 20 years, I had it in the garage, and just ran the power strip cord through the wal to keep the hum out.
It was really too not bad, but maybe 40 dBA… you could hear it if you got within a foot or two.

I ran it into a an Audible Illusion Modulus preamp, then later a Nagra preamp.
Eventually I just replaced the jumpers in the Nagra supply to allow it to do 230v, as well as the tube stage for the phono

Then a variety of power amps, SS and tube, and TT.
Everything was on a 110v power strip.
A few times I would run a 230v integrated, with ann Au plug… and run the preamp into that integrated… but the 230v was on the same plug as the 230-110v transformer. I did not have any ground issues.

The VTL tube amps continued to produce sound out of them for ~15-20 seconds after the power was turned off, so it was not like they did not have some capacitors storing power.
The later tube amp, shuts itself down when turned off, and I have not actually tried leaving it on, and just pulling the plug… maybe it also has a lot of stored energy?
I am moving to a SS power amps again, which is en route.

Basically, while I liked the Audible Illusions, they also wanted a lot to change the outboard power supply to 230v, so I just changed preamps as it was more than the Mrs likes to power on. plus she also liked the silver look better than the black, so the Feng Shei passed WAF.

If you don’t have the Niagara then I would say hold off and see how things are with the transformer.
If you already have it, then just get the transformer.
(You’ll need a transformer anyhow.)
You can always get the Niagara later, and half the people I know say to plug power amp straight into the wall.

I am assuming that they sell those transformers in the Eu???
(They weigh a bit, but a gryphon do not fly by themselves.)
 
Holmz said:
It was an Australian transformer, but likely the same, or similar to Eu ones.
It is not a difficult thing, as it just steps the voltage down. You already have at least 2 or 3 between the power station and you house, and no one other than an electrician even thinks about them.

As far as brand, I am not sure, as they are now in shipping container.
They are just big humming grey boxes… maybe 8” x8” x 16” high.
At one house we were in for 20 years, I had it in the garage, and just ran the power strip cord through the wal to keep the hum out.
It was really too not bad, but maybe 40 dBA… you could hear it if you got within a foot or two.

I ran it into a an Audible Illusion Modulus preamp, then later a Nagra preamp.
Eventually I just replaced the jumpers in the Nagra supply to allow it to do 230v, as well as the tube stage for the phono

Then a variety of power amps, SS and tube, and TT.
Everything was on a 110v power strip.
A few times I would run a 230v integrated, with ann Au plug… and run the preamp into that integrated… but the 230v was on the same plug as the 230-110v transformer. I did not have any ground issues.

The VTL tube amps continued to produce sound out of them for ~15-20 seconds after the power was turned off, so it was not like they did not have some capacitors storing power.
The later tube amp, shuts itself down when turned off, and I have not actually tried leaving it on, and just pulling the plug… maybe it also has a lot of stored energy?
I am moving to a SS power amps again, which is en route.

Basically, while I liked the Audible Illusions, they also wanted a lot to change the outboard power supply to 230v, so I just changed preamps as it was more than the Mrs likes to power on. plus she also liked the silver look better than the black, so the Feng Shei passed WAF.

If you don’t have the Niagara then I would say hold off and see how things are with the transformer.
If you already have it, then just get the transformer.
(You’ll need a transformer anyhow.)
You can always get the Niagara later, and half the people I know say to plug power amp straight into the wall.

I am assuming that they sell those transformers in the Eu???
(They weigh a bit, but a gryphon do not fly by themselves.)
Click to expand...

Thanks for all of that information.

I already own the Niagara 5000.

I don’t know if I have to but it here and take it there or wait and buy it there. I’ll have to investigate.

I have written a note to AudioQuest.

I would be a little bummed about the hum since I will be in an apartment and will probably not have a place to stash the transformer.

I wonder if I can find the quietest step down transformer.
 
LarryK said:
Thanks for all of that information.

I already own the Niagara 5000.

I don’t know if I have to but it here and take it there or wait and buy it there. I’ll have to investigate.

I have written a note to AudioQuest.

I would be a little bummed about the hum since I will be in an apartment and will probably not have a place to stash the transformer.

I wonder if I can find the quietest step down transformer.
Click to expand...
Well people use these these things to clean up the power and make it quieter, but then the transformer sees DC and hums ;)
They are not that bad, you’ll get more external noise into an apartment from outside.

I really would not worry at all about “the best” transformer.
They’re are all governed by the laws of physics, and the inductance is massive.
Any higher freq signals coming in like internet of power (MoCa) will see that like 8” of lead with a high impedance.

Which city are you moving to and for how long?
Those amps are not small, and I suspect that the speakers are not small.
It could be hard to turn it up too much, and hard to just get them stuffed into the roon.
Add in a TT and it can get unwieldy.

For some limited time move, and in an apartment…. I’d be seriously considering selling or storing the existing stuff, and using a smaller integrated with smaller speakers or possibly even headphones.
 
Holmz said:
Well people use these these things to clean up the power and make it quieter, but then the transformer sees DC and hums ;)
They are not that bad, you’ll get more external noise into an apartment from outside.

I really would not worry at all about “the best” transformer.
They’re are all governed by the laws of physics, and the inductance is massive.
Any higher freq signals coming in like internet of power (MoCa) will see that like 8” of lead with a high impedance.

Which city are you moving to and for how long?
Those amps are not small, and I suspect that the speakers are not small.
It could be hard to turn it up too much, and hard to just get them stuffed into the roon.
Add in a TT and it can get unwieldy.

For some limited time move, and in an apartment…. I’d be seriously considering selling or storing the existing stuff, and using a smaller integrated with smaller speakers or possibly even headphones.
Click to expand...

Oh, if we go, we will be moving to Europe permanently.

The Niagara 5000 has four high current outlets that can provide up to 90 amps for an amplifier, if I am reading this correctly:

www.audioquest.com

AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner w/ Linear Noise-Dissipation & Non-Sacrificial Surge Protection

Like all AQ power products, Niagara 5000 exemplifies a comprehensive approach to AC power management—one grounded in verifiable science, representing over 20 years of exhaustive research into AC power products designed for audiophiles, broadcast engineers, and professional-audio applications...
www.audioquest.com www.audioquest.com

My speakers are Gryphon Cantatas, speakers that were designed for a small living space. They would be fine in a 1000 square foot apartment.

And, yes, I have a turntable, SSD recorder, and CD player as well. None of these draw much current. I have tried to leave no source behind.

I dislike headphones and will never go back to them.

I have run my system in a relatively small one bedroom apartment in New York City. If the Niagara 5000 is banking power, why should there be a limit on the volume level? I don't play at ear splitting levels.
 
Last edited:
LarryK said:
Oh, if we go, we will be moving to Europe permanently.

The Niagara 5000 has four high current outlets that can provide up to 90 amps for an amplifier, if I am reading this correctly:
Click to expand...
I doubt that the amps need any more than handfuls of amperes.
If they did the breakers would be tripping.

LarryK said:
www.audioquest.com

AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner w/ Linear Noise-Dissipation & Non-Sacrificial Surge Protection

Like all AQ power products, Niagara 5000 exemplifies a comprehensive approach to AC power management—one grounded in verifiable science, representing over 20 years of exhaustive research into AC power products designed for audiophiles, broadcast engineers, and professional-audio applications...
www.audioquest.com www.audioquest.com

My speakers are Gryphon Cantatas, speakers that were designed for a small living space. They would be fine in a 1000 square foot apartment.

And, yes, I have a turntable, SSD recorder, and CD player as well. None of these draw much current. I have tried to leave no source behind.

I dislike headphones and will never go back to them.
Click to expand...
Me too.

LarryK said:
I have run my system in a relatively small one bedroom apartment in New York City. If the Niagara 5000 is banking power, why should there be a limit on the volume level? I don't play at ear splitting levels, though.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that they bank power, but maybe they do.

My point with the VTLs playing for a while, was that power amps “bank power” in the capacitors.
So amps are just using the wall to stay topped up, after their initial number of seconds of power up.
(Tesla’s power coming in, and converted Edison’s power inside ;) )

Just get the transformer - and you’ll likely be fine.
 
Holmz said:
I doubt that the amps need any more than handfuls of amperes.
If they did the breakers would be tripping.


Me too.


I don’t think that they bank power, but maybe they do.

My point with the VTLs playing for a while, was that power amps “bank power” in the capacitors.
So amps are just using the wall to stay topped up, after their initial number of seconds of power up.
(Tesla’s power coming in, and converted Edison’s power inside ;) )

Just get the transformer - and you’ll likely be fine.
Click to expand...

The Gryphon Colosseum requires a 20 amp circuit and can pull up to 2400 watts from the wall.

Yes, the amplifier has huge capacitors to bank power and the Niagara also banks power to provide the amplifier with instantaneous current.

I asked Perplexity for an explanation:

“Yes, the AudioQuest Niagara 5000 power conditioner does keep a reserve of power for amplifiers connected to its high-current outlets. It includes a bank of capacitors that can supply up to 80 amps peak for 25 milliseconds, ensuring that power amplifiers can draw the instantaneous current they need to handle musical transients without experiencing current compression[4]. Additionally, it has an instantaneous current reservoir of over 90 amps peak specifically designed to support power-starved amplifiers[6]. This feature helps maintain a low impedance and provides the necessary current for high-demand situations, ensuring optimal performance of connected amplifiers.”

Sources
[1] Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner https://www.thecableco.com/niagara-5000-power-conditioner.html
[2] Niagara 3000 Power Conditioner https://www.thecableco.com/niagara-3000-power-conditioner.html
[3] AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner in Black | Audio Advisor https://www.audioadvisor.com/aqni5000-blk?frt=13
[4] Niagara 5000 Lets The Power Flow | The Ear https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/niagara-5000-lets-the-power-flow/
[5] AudioQuest Niagara 5000 20-amp power line conditioner and surge ... https://www.crutchfield.com/p_703NGARA5K/AudioQuest-Niagara-5000.html
[6] AudioQuest - Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner - Music Direct https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/power-conditioner/audioquest-niagara-5000-power-conditioner/
[7] Audio Quest Niagara 5000 - Audiogon Discussion Forum https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/audio-quest-niagara-5000
[8] AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Low-Z Power | Noise-Dissipation System https://www.audiophilia.com/reviews...ara-5000-low-z-power-noise-dissipation-system
 
LarryK said:
The Gryphon Colosseum requires a 20 amp circuit and can pull up to 2400 watts from the wall.
Click to expand...
“Can pull 2400 watts”, would be absolute peak, and if the breaker doesn’t blow, then it will be pulling less than 20A.
In a small room, I doubt it would be push out more than a watt of power to the speakers… but let’s say it is 10W.
Maybe it draws 5A at idle… there should be a spec somewhere.


LarryK said:
Yes, the amplifier has huge capacitors to bank power and the Niagara also banks power to provide the amplifier with instantaneous current.

I asked Perplexity for an explanation:

“Yes, the AudioQuest Niagara 5000 power conditioner does keep a reserve of power for amplifiers connected to its high-current outlets. It includes a bank of capacitors that can supply up to 80 amps peak for 25 milliseconds, ensuring that power amplifiers can draw the instantaneous current they need to handle musical transients without experiencing current compression[4]. Additionally, it has an instantaneous current reservoir of over 90 amps peak specifically designed to support power-starved amplifiers[6]. This feature helps maintain a low impedance and provides the necessary current for high-demand situations, ensuring optimal performance of connected amplifiers.”

Sources
[1] Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner https://www.thecableco.com/niagara-5000-power-conditioner.html
[2] Niagara 3000 Power Conditioner https://www.thecableco.com/niagara-3000-power-conditioner.html
[3] AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner in Black | Audio Advisor https://www.audioadvisor.com/aqni5000-blk?frt=13
[4] Niagara 5000 Lets The Power Flow | The Ear https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/niagara-5000-lets-the-power-flow/
[5] AudioQuest Niagara 5000 20-amp power line conditioner and surge ... https://www.crutchfield.com/p_703NGARA5K/AudioQuest-Niagara-5000.html
[6] AudioQuest - Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner - Music Direct https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/power-conditioner/audioquest-niagara-5000-power-conditioner/
[7] Audio Quest Niagara 5000 - Audiogon Discussion Forum https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/audio-quest-niagara-5000
[8] AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Low-Z Power | Noise-Dissipation System https://www.audiophilia.com/reviews...ara-5000-low-z-power-noise-dissipation-system
Click to expand...
The idea of needing instantaneous current, seems a bit misguided.
The amp already has a power supply with capacitors inside of it… unless it is running way up on the SPL power/volume side , then “what the external Niaga
LarryK said:
The Gryphon Colosseum requires a 20 amp circuit and can pull up to 2400 watts from the wall.
Click to expand...
“:Can pull 20A is worst case.
The SPL would need to be railed to get there, and if one is not throwing a breaker then it is not pull 20A consistently.

In a small room, the SPL would be shockingly high.
So we can call it 1W of musical power, or maybe 10W if we really stretch it.
I suspect that the input would be 5A, but there shoudl be some idle current, or some power at idle that ne be used for the low end.


LarryK said:
Yes, the amplifier has huge capacitors to bank power and the Niagara also banks power to provide the amplifier with instantaneous current.
Click to expand...
Many amps have a massive capacitor reserve.
If the input is coming in at 50Hz, then the 25 milliseconds sort of defines the dead time of an AC sinewave.
Those amps would seem, in theory, to be less affected by an external buffering power supply.

Does your system sound different when the power amp is plugged into the wall, than into the Niagara?


LarryK said:
I asked Perplexity for an explanation:

“Yes, the AudioQuest Niagara 5000 power conditioner does keep a reserve of power for amplifiers connected to its high-current outlets. It includes a bank of capacitors that can supply up to 80 amps peak for 25 milliseconds, ensuring that power amplifiers can draw the instantaneous current they need to handle musical transients without experiencing current compression[4]. Additionally, it has an instantaneous current reservoir of over 90 amps peak specifically designed to support power-starved amplifiers[6]. This feature helps maintain a low impedance and provides the necessary current for high-demand situations, ensuring optimal performance of connected amplifiers.”

Sources
[1] Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner https://www.thecableco.com/niagara-5000-power-conditioner.html
[2] Niagara 3000 Power Conditioner https://www.thecableco.com/niagara-3000-power-conditioner.html
[3] AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner in Black | Audio Advisor https://www.audioadvisor.com/aqni5000-blk?frt=13
[4] Niagara 5000 Lets The Power Flow | The Ear https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/niagara-5000-lets-the-power-flow/
[5] AudioQuest Niagara 5000 20-amp power line conditioner and surge ... https://www.crutchfield.com/p_703NGARA5K/AudioQuest-Niagara-5000.html
[6] AudioQuest - Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner - Music Direct https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/power-conditioner/audioquest-niagara-5000-power-conditioner/
[7] Audio Quest Niagara 5000 - Audiogon Discussion Forum https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/audio-quest-niagara-5000
[8] AudioQuest Niagara 5000 Low-Z Power | Noise-Dissipation System https://www.audiophilia.com/reviews...ara-5000-low-z-power-noise-dissipation-system
Click to expand...

Let’s set aside whether that power conditioner is helping…
I think that asking Gryphon if their amps can run at 115v/50 Hz could be worthwhile.

That is not the same as 110v/60Hz, and if their transformers do not like 50Hz compared to 60Hz, then that would be good to know ahead of time.

I know with motors, some of the newer ones can operate at either frequency, so I assume that transformers in the amp may be similar.

They are either using different power supplies in different regions because they use different transformers, or to limit grey market trade, or for something else.
Many other manufactures use the same transformer, and change which taps are used depending upon region.
So Gryphon is different.

It would be a shame to find out that the amp cannot run (and last) on 50Hz… In that case, it is worth more now, than it would be later.

This paragraph, from their manual, frightens me:
“Your Gryphon unit is especially made for the AC voltage of the country to which it has been shipped. If the voltage has been changed, the warranty is void and the product may be unsafe or mal- function.”
 
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