A frame of reference

[TBone]

One observation that I have is that there seem to be precious few great sounding Rock recordings, particularly if you compare to jazz. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that so much rock relies on electric instruments, whereas jazz ( at least the more Bop orientated jazz) does not.

Well, I'm not so certain. Many are recorded like crap, but quite a few "good" R&R albums exist.

Contrary to what many audiophiles claim, R&R is actually a difficult genre to reproduce properly for many an audio system. It strains many into smearing, brittleness and compression, artifacts that many consider inherit with R&R recordings.

Headroom is critical, especially with the upper frequencies. The ability of a system to stay composed during peak periods is all too often stressed to the limit. But some may be amazed, as per my DP example above, Machine Head (not recorded in a studio) with it's keyboard induced purposeful distortion, although difficult to reproduce, can sound truly amazing. It plays as one very best sounding albums of any kind I've ever heard on my system, and this is a CD!!!! (which many figure are inherently brittle/compressed)

Funny, but I've met too many audiophiles who associate certain gear with types of music. Personally, I think this is a bit counter-productive, considering a "good" component should reproduce all forms of music equally. Case in point, when I was looking for a CDP many moons ago, I was told not to get the Linn Ikemi because it had a reputation as not being a good R&R player. Classical, Jazz, small ensembles, I was told it was excellent, just don't consider it for R&R. Well, let's see, although it possessed class leading transparency and superb dimensionality, two items Classical fans often require, it also possessed a wide well controlled bandwidth, with a lean type presentation, w/plenty of dynamic headroom. In fact, it's slight lack of tonal texture and richness might be considered more a showstopper with classical and Jazz, rather than R&R. The fact is, to this day, I've heard very few players reproduce R&R better.

tb1

 

[TBone]

Interestingly, the Coverdale years were not terrible because the material was acceptably strong.

Interesting, Blackmore "hates" Cloverdale as much or more than Gillan.

I actually liked Turner in Rainbow.

He sounds far too commercial and whinny for me, but Blackmore decided to become more & more "commercial" as Rainbow progressed. Ronnie James Dio based Rainbow was better suited to my taste ... but ...

tb1

 

[Andre Marc]

Well, I'm not so certain. Many are recorded like crap, but quite a few "good" R&R albums exist.

Contrary to what many audiophiles claim, R&R is actually a difficult genre to reproduce properly for many an audio system. It strains many into smearing, brittleness and compression, artifacts that many consider inherit with R&R recordings.

Headroom is critical, especially with the upper frequencies. The ability of a system to stay composed during peak periods is all too often stressed to the limit. But some may be amazed, as per my DP example above, Machine Head (not recorded in a studio) with it's keyboard induced purposeful distortion, although difficult to reproduce, can sound truly amazing. It plays as one very best sounding albums of any kind I've ever heard on my system, and this is a CD!!!! (which many figure are inherently brittle/compressed)

Funny, but I've met too many audiophiles who associate certain gear with types of music. Personally, I think this is a bit counter-productive, considering a "good" component should reproduce all forms of music equally. Case in point, when I was looking for a CDP many moons ago, I was told not to get the Linn Ikemi because it had a reputation as not being a good R&R player. Classical, Jazz, small ensembles, I was told it was excellent, just don't consider it for R&R. Well, let's see, although it possessed class leading transparency and superb dimensionality, two items Classical fans often require, it also possessed a wide well controlled bandwidth, with a lean type presentation, w/plenty of dynamic headroom. In fact, it's slight lack of tonal texture and richness might be considered more a showstopper with classical and Jazz, rather than R&R. The fact is, to this day, I've heard very few players reproduce R&R better.

tb1

I try not to get too technical with Rock recordings. For me it is about attitude, and being transported. We could go on forever about how rock records are made...close and multi tracked and multi miked instruments and vocals, with
artificial ambiance added, and channel panning..etc...In the end, does the energy come through.

Sit me down with a Bad Company record and I ASSURE you my toe is tapping and I could not give a **** about frequency response, extension..blah blah blah and other audiophile lofty ideals.

I agree with you on the second my point, I think it is total and utter nonsense to label gear a "rock speaker", or a "jazz amp"...Such parlour audiophile mythology.

Either the gear reproduces the sound waves or it does not. The concession I will make is that there IS some gear that has physical limitations so if you like to listen at
ear destroying levels, they take that into consideration. The Bob Carver 20 wpc channel amp I have hear just kills it even on Iron Maiden.

 

[Andre Marc]

Interesting, Blackmore "hates" Cloverdale as much or more than Gillan.



He sounds far too commercial and whinny for me, but Blackmore decided to become more & more "commercial" as Rainbow progressed. Ronnie James Dio based Rainbow was better suited to my taste ... but ...

tb1

I guess it is a matter of taste. I think Turner did a fine job on those middle Rainbow records. When pushed, he COULD sing. I've got a bunch of board
tapes where he and Blackmore just kill it.

Coverdale is the very worst that rock has to offer...lol...but he did fill that spot for a few albums.

 

[TBone]

I try not to get too technical with Rock recordings. For me it is about attitude, and being transported. We could go on forever about how rock records are made...close and multi tracked and multi miked instruments and vocals, with
artificial ambiance added, and channel panning..etc...In the end, does the energy come through.

Sit me down with a Bad Company record and I ASSURE you my toe is tapping and I could not give a **** about frequency response, extension..blah blah blah and other audiophile lofty ideals.

I agree with you on the second my point, I think it is total and utter nonsense to label gear a "rock speaker", or a "jazz amp"...Such parlour audiophile mythology.

Either the gear reproduces the sound waves or it does not. The concession I will make is that there IS some gear that has physical limitations so if you like to listen at
ear destroying levels, they take that into consideration. The Bob Carver 20 wpc channel amp I have hear just kills it even on Iron Maiden.

I can't listen to compressed R&R, drives me to the street. My system was designed to play R&R as per my criteria, but not at the expense of other forms of music.

One telling R&R "system-test" I prefer; play a good R&R song at reasonable "rock" volume with a friend close by and see if you can still carry a simple conversation without screaming at each other. Generally speaking, if you're screaming instead of talking, (which happens all too often) the system as a whole will be too compressed for my liking.

tb1

 

[TBone]

Coverdale is the very worst that rock has to offer

not a big fan either, but I respect his work with DP. He's was respectful to the original band members ... whenever he played SOTW live, he started the song ...

"They (instead of We) all came out to Montreux On the Lake Geneva shoreline ... "

tb1

 

[Andre Marc]

I can't listen to compressed R&R, drives me to the street. My system was designed to play R&R as per my criteria, but not at the expense of other forms of music.

One telling R&R "system-test" I prefer; play a good R&R song at reasonable "rock" volume with a friend close by and see if you can still carry a simple conversation without screaming at each other. Generally speaking, if you're screaming instead of talking, (which happens all too often) the system as a whole will be too compressed for my liking.

tb1

Yeh, I agree, if it is squashed to death an overall stinker of a production, who needs it.

I am not sure about your conversation test. When music is on for listening purposes, and not for background,
conversation is a no no.

Oh man, I got a bit inspired and have been listening to Rainbow all morning. Just finished Straight Between The Eyes. Solid, solid work. "Stone Cold"
is just a perfect rock single.

 

[DaveyF]

At last years Newport show, I walked in on a manufacturer who was demo'ing primarily rock. They had some very large speakers in a small room ( can't remember the name of the speaker co.) and were playing some Zep and Sabbath LOUD. I was very amused to see the reaction of most of the visitor's to the room...a look of mild disapproval and a quick exit