A Great Solid State $5K ~ $7K Amp

[morricab]

Well, if you really like tubes like I do, then you don't need to sacrifice bass control, depending on your speaker efficiency. Maybe don't give up on tubes yet.

I use a custom version of the Arte-Forma Due Volte. Google it. They sell a newer version now, but same circuit. All direct-coupled and SET. 35W per monoblock. I modded mine and rolled the tubes. You can roll the tubes and use what I use. Better bass and midrange than my modded 1000W Parasound JC-1 monoblocks!! I sold them.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Those are pretty...like the wood. This 805 tube seems to be able to be driven pretty hard. Are these made in Japan? Your experience mirrors my own with really good SETs...

 

[john95]

Well, if you really like tubes like I do, then you don't need to sacrifice bass control, depending on your speaker efficiency. Maybe don't give up on tubes yet.

Don't get me wrong, I love tube sound, but I love great SS also

I use a custom version of the Arte-Forma Due Volte. Google it. They sell a newer version now, but same circuit. All direct-coupled and SET. 35W per monoblock. I modded mine and rolled the tubes. You can roll the tubes and use what I use. Better bass and midrange than my modded 1000W Parasound JC-1 monoblocks!! I sold them.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

I was reading about these Tube amps, wow! they look very impressive in paper, I'd love to give them a listening to see if they pass my ears test. They cost about $6.6K, they are not cheap either!
Can you please describe them how they sound? Lows, mids, highs, image, separation of instruments, depth, wideness, stage, do they have a very focused sweet spot?, how do lead vocalist and lead instrument sound? does the bass has slam? what about cymbals? toms, electric guitar, percussion, piano, sax, violins, does it give you a sense of life music? What about the authenticity of the musical notes? Does a C sounds like a natural C?. Thanks for you info.

 

[Empirical Audio]

Of all the tube amps I've heard over 30 years (yes I'm getting old) the only one that had exemplary bass quality / control were VTL Siegfrieds as dedicated bass amps for Rockport Arrakis. And the reason the bass was so good is the ability to adjust damping + gobs of power. Other than that, most yield loose bass and many don't have enough power to adequately drive speakers. Also, over the past decade or so SS amps have come along as to encroach into tube amp goodness territory (warmth, dimension, etc.) while complimenting sonics with power, bass grip and dynamics. YMMV and all that ;-)

You obviously have never visited one of my rooms at a trade show. Tubes can be fantastic for both HF detail and bass. It's all in the implementation and tube selection.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Empirical Audio]

Those are pretty...like the wood. This 805 tube seems to be able to be driven pretty hard. Are these made in Japan? Your experience mirrors my own with really good SETs...

These amps are made in Taiwan.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Empirical Audio]

Don't get me wrong, I love tube sound, but I love great SS also

I was reading about these Tube amps, wow! they look very impressive in paper, I'd love to give them a listening to see if they pass my ears test. They cost about $6.6K, they are not cheap either!
Can you please describe them how they sound? Lows, mids, highs, image, separation of instruments, depth, wideness, stage, do they have a very focused sweet spot?, how do lead vocalist and lead instrument sound? does the bass has slam? what about cymbals? toms, electric guitar, percussion, piano, sax, violins, does it give you a sense of life music? What about the authenticity of the musical notes? Does a C sounds like a natural C?. Thanks for you info.

These are the most live amps I have ever owned or heard at any salon or trade show, but of course this depends on how good your source is. A CD transport will not cut it. The piano that I get now is live in the room with you. I have a Yamaha parlor Grand, so I know what this sounds like. Percussion has perfect attack and very 3D. I literally don't want any other amps, even if someone offered $250K Wavacs to me for free.

My speakers are 92dB efficient, so they literally can break windows with this amp. I have to be careful of the volume level. I use my 2-channel also for my HT, and these amps create gun-shots and explosions in war movies that are so live that my dog has to jump up and leave the room.

My version of this Arte-Forma monoblock is actually a prototype that was point-to-point wired and I modded it extensively. The new version uses a circuit board, so it is more consistent. They had problems with wiring errors etc., so they changed to a circuit board. This didn't impact the SQ too much. The only change that I would recommend is to add an inrush limiter to the 805A/T filament supply so that the these output tubes last longer. Immediate power-on can shorten their life to 1 year. I have heard the new version at shows in other vendors rooms. Here are my customized amps and my Vapor Nimbus speakers:


Again, the most significant things that affect SQ in your system are:

Speakers and source.

If these are not optimized, it will not matter what amps you have.

BTW, If you are within driving distance of Oregon, I'll be happy to audition my amps for you.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[john95]

You obviously have never visited one of my rooms at a trade show. Tubes can be fantastic for both HF detail and bass. It's all in the implementation and tube selection.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Well, I'd like to play my 6 string bass guitar thru those amps of yours see how they reproduce low notes.

 

[Empirical Audio]

Well, I'd like to play my 6 string bass guitar thru those amps of yours see how they reproduce low notes.

Pretty damn good. The lows go deep into the crawlspace under the house. Bass is tight too. You have never heard bass from ANY speaker like these produce. Organ tracks are incredible. It's the combination of these amps and the Nimbus speakers that is really amazing.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[tkcha]

Hi john95 If you ok with used. You already mentioned Bryston 4B3 but if you willing to go used 7B3 is much better than 4B3 also Hegel H30 very good but few years older than those newer Bryston 4,7B3 but better sounding amp for me and both of Bryston 7B3, Hegel H30 can find under 7k.

 

[john95]

These are the most live amps I have ever owned or heard at any salon or trade show, but of course this depends on how good your source is. A CD transport will not cut it. The piano that I get now is live in the room with you. I have a Yamaha parlor Grand, so I know what this sounds like. Percussion has perfect attack and very 3D. I literally don't want any other amps, even if someone offered $250K Wavacs to me for free.

Wow! you are really committed to this amp!

My speakers are 92dB efficient, so they literally can break windows with this amp. I have to be careful of the volume level. I use my 2-channel also for my HT, and these amps create gun-shots and explosions in war movies that are so live that my dog has to jump up and leave the room.

This is great!

My version of this Arte-Forma monoblock is actually a prototype that was point-to-point wired and I modded it extensively. The new version uses a circuit board, so it is more consistent. They had problems with wiring errors etc., so they changed to a circuit board. This didn't impact the SQ too much. The only change that I would recommend is to add an inrush limiter to the 805A/T filament supply so that the these output tubes last longer. Immediate power-on can shorten their life to 1 year. I have heard the new version at shows in other vendors rooms. Here are my customized amps and my Vapor Nimbus speakers:

Nice setup!

Again, the most significant things that affect SQ in your system are:

Speakers and source.

Well, I try not to have a weak link in the whole system. Even a bad cable, interconnect or weak connection makes a difference in a complex sound system though.

If these are not optimized, it will not matter what amps you have.

BTW, If you are within driving distance of Oregon, I'll be happy to audition my amps for you.

Thanks for your kind offer but I live in southern California, not a driving distance; otherwise I'd be there and would bring some carne asada tacos, some pupusas and some horchata for lunch

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[john95]

Hi john95 If you ok with used. You already mentioned Bryston 4B3 but if you willing to go used 7B3 is much better than 4B3 also Hegel H30 very good but few years older than those newer Bryston 4,7B3 but better sounding amp for me and both of Bryston 7B3, Hegel H30 can find under 7k.

Thanks for your suggestion though, I was just talking today with a guy who has the 7B3 monos 600 watts for $12K, he was talking me out of the 4B3, he says that the 7B3 is much, much better amp. Well, it doubles the power of the 4B3 and of course doubles the money; way out of my initial budget but I'm considering it.

Also, one important thing that he mentioned to me, that I did not see before is the fact that I could get the B&W 805 D3 and add 2 high end subwoofers down the line and be close to the same audio quality of the B&W 800 D3 that retails for $30K a pair. He says the tweeter and mid range driver on the 805 D3 is the exact same drivers on the 800 D3 except for the subwoofers. If I had the money, I'd go now and I'd get the 800 D3 and the Bryston 28 B3 $22K mono 1,000 watts and be done with it and forget all the stress, but I don't have the money. For me the B&W 800 D3 and the Bryston 28 B3 combo are amazing. I never heard something better than this regardless of money.

 

[Pb Blimp]

This:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8gf78-pass-labs-x350-8-in-excellent-condition-solid-state

 

[asiufy]

Hi John,

If you're in SoCal, you're welcome to stop by and listen to some of our stuff.


cheers,
Alex

 

[john95]

This:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8gf78-pass-labs-x350-8-in-excellent-condition-solid-state

Thanks Pb Blimp.

 

[john95]

Hi John,

If you're in SoCal, you're welcome to stop by and listen to some of our stuff.


cheers,
Alex

Thanks Alex. Ah, next time I go to San Diego, I'll give you guys a visit.

 

[tkcha]

Thanks for your suggestion though, I was just talking today with a guy who has the 7B3 monos 600 watts for $12K, he was talking me out of the 4B3, he says that the 7B3 is much, much better amp. Well, it doubles the power of the 4B3 and of course doubles the money; way out of my initial budget but I'm considering it.

Also, one important thing that he mentioned to me, that I did not see before is the fact that I could get the B&W 803 D3 and add 2 high end subwoofers down the line and be close to the same audio quality of the B&W 800 D3 that retails for $30K a pair. He says the tweeter and mid range driver on the 803 D3 is the exact same drivers on the 800 D3 except for the subwoofers. If I had the money, I'd go now and I'd get the 800 D3 and the Bryston 28 B3 $22K mono 1,000 watts and be done with it and forget all the stress, but I don't have the money. For me the B&W 800 D3 and the Bryston 28 B3 combo are amazing. I never heard something better than this regardless of money.

You seems like figured something, I have speaker with 10, 12 inch woofer and goes down 25Hz but still have Two 15 inch active 3500 watts subwoofers.
Its very good idea have subs but not cheap also not easy to set it up properly, You need 2 good subwoopers for stereo and you seems like never set the subs before Its not easy neither cheap
still you can do it and I like the idea but Please do not skimp on subwoofer or only single subwoofer.

 

[stephen_volker]

So far I've found that I love the sound of Phison and for that reason have been looking at doing comparisons with other pieces of equipment for each component. I did a DAC shootout and detailed some of the differences between the Rockna Wavedream Signature, Metrum Adagio, COS D1, and Phison D2SE.

Where are you located? I plan to have an amp shootout some time soon. Just sold my VAC amp, but would probably be comparing Levinson, Rowland, Phison, and maybe NAT & Pass? If we can find more then probably more. I am located in the Atlanta area.

 

[microstrip]

I have now listened twice to demos of the PSAudio BHK Signature 250 stereo power amplifier and I must say I was impressed with the performance, considering its very reasonable price. https://www.psaudio.com/products/bhk-signature-amplifier/

 

[john95]

You seems like figured something,

Sorry, I meant the B&W 805 D3 bookshelf speaker, not the 803 D3 full 3 way.
Yes, going the B&W 805 D3 plus 2 subwoofers route is a great idea, complex to do but would save me lots of money. The B&W DB2D subwoofers are $7K for the pair and they have the same identical drivers of the 800 D3 speakes that cost $30K! so that would be $6K for the 805 D3 and $7K for the DB2D pair of subwoofers, that would be $13K total, still is less than half of the $30K.

I have speaker with 10, 12 inch woofer and goes down 25Hz but still have Two 15 inch active 3500 watts subwoofers.

Well the DB2D go down to 10Hz with 2x 10" drivers work like a 20" driver, these are really fine high end subwoofers.

Its very good idea have subs but not cheap also not easy to set it up properly, You need 2 good subwoopers for stereo and you seems like never set the subs before Its not easy neither cheap
still you can do it and I like the idea but Please do not skimp on subwoofer or only single subwoofer.

I know it would not be cheap and not easy to setup right but I guess it would sound amazing good. Also, I could buy the subwoofers later. The 805 D3 sound great already without the subwoofers, I guess I have lots of options.

 

[morricab]

I have now listened twice to demos of the PSAudio BHK Signature 250 stereo power amplifier and I must say I was impressed with the performance, considering its very reasonable price. https://www.psaudio.com/products/bhk-signature-amplifier/

I heard it at a dealer demo with all PS Audio system (pre, DAC and power) and Magico S5 MkII and it was not good at all. Relatively poor resolution, boomy bass (could be the speaker/room but I have heard much better results in this same room with similarly sized speakers) and not a very natural tonality. I was expecting something much better given a tube preamp and a hybrid amp (both of which I have had good experience with in the past, although not this brand of course).

 

[john95]

So far I've found that I love the sound of Phison and for that reason have been looking at doing comparisons with other pieces of equipment for each component. I did a DAC shootout and detailed some of the differences between the Rockna Wavedream Signature, Metrum Adagio, COS D1, and Phison D2SE.

Where are you located? I plan to have an amp shootout some time soon. Just sold my VAC amp, but would probably be comparing Levinson, Rowland, Phison, and maybe NAT & Pass? If we can find more then probably more. I am located in the Atlanta area.

Thanks for your reply stephen_volker, I'm located in southern California. I'm shopping for a good amp/speaker combo, as a matter in fact I have a demo audition today near Beverly Hills. Still considering many options. I'm having lots of fun. I sent you a PM.