A peek behind the scenes at a recording session

B

bdiament

Member
Apr 26, 2012
196
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16
New York area
Hi all,

Been a busy year and I haven't posted in quite a while.

I recently did a few recording sessions for which we shot some video, hoping folks would find a behind-the-scenes view of the sessions of interest. The middle of the video features a short "tour" of the recording gear I used.

Note that everything is being picked up by a single pair of (matched) microphones. The balance is achieved by moving musicians before the recording, rather than moving faders after the recording.

The audio for the album is complete. We're just awaiting completion of the painting that will become the cover. Anticipated release is around Thanksgiving.

Click here to go to the video.
I hope you enjoy it.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com (The Soundkeeper Blog)
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
 
I like it quite a bit.
Clever name for the group.
Lead is a talented fellow. Will probably visit the site and pick up a copy.
 
I also appreciated your description of the h/w and s/w.
 
Very cool...simple mic technique.
Particularly, enjoyed the musicians moving about to influence the sound/recording!
Congrats :cool:
 
^^^^good point that was a nice touch
 
bdiament said:
Hi all,

Been a busy year and I haven't posted in quite a while.

I recently did a few recording sessions for which we shot some video, hoping folks would find a behind-the-scenes view of the sessions of interest. The middle of the video features a short "tour" of the recording gear I used.

Note that everything is being picked up by a single pair of (matched) microphones. The balance is achieved by moving musicians before the recording, rather than moving faders after the recording.

The audio for the album is complete. We're just awaiting completion of the painting that will become the cover. Anticipated release is around Thanksgiving.

Click here to go to the video.
I hope you enjoy it.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com (The Soundkeeper Blog)
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
Click to expand...

Barry, thanks a million for posting this and for all your work in recording and mastering.

There are so few artisanal recordists such as your self who pay attention to every detail.
 
Andre Marc said:
...ever get the temptation to siphon off the mic feed to a reel deck for a little analog goodness?:D
Click to expand...

Hi Andre,

Thank you for your kindness.

To answer your question, I would have in the past but not since I heard what the ULN-8 can do at 24/192.
It is the first recording device (and the *only* one so far) in my experience that delivers results I have not yet been able to discern from listening to the direct mic feed at the recording sessions. I've never had this experience before from any analog device that I've tried or any other digital device, regardless of price or design. Unlike so many other devices, which sound *very good* (but not at all indistinguishable from the input signal), the ULN-8 at 24/192 just seems to get out of the way.

Of course, as with anything, what is "good", "better", or "best" depends entirely on exactly what one is seeking. For me, "very good" sound from the gear is a distortion. I want the music and the room to sound "very good". I want the gear to get out of the way so I can hear the music and the room as they are.
Just my perspective, of course.

It is similar to how I feel about doing an audio edit. If a client listens to an edit and says "great edit", I haven't done a very good job. I've done a good job when the client says "Where's the edit? How did you do that?"

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
 
bdiament said:
Hi Andre,

Thank you for your kindness.

To answer your question, I would have in the past but not since I heard what the ULN-8 can do at 24/192.
It is the first recording device (and the *only* one so far) in my experience that delivers results I have not yet been able to discern from listening to the direct mic feed at the recording sessions. I've never had this experience before from any analog device that I've tried or any other digital device, regardless of price or design. Unlike so many other devices, which sound *very good* (but not at all indistinguishable from the input signal), the ULN-8 at 24/192 just seems to get out of the way.

Of course, as with anything, what is "good", "better", or "best" depends entirely on exactly what one is seeking. For me, "very good" sound from the gear is a distortion. I want the music and the room to sound "very good". I want the gear to get out of the way so I can hear the music and the room as they are.
Just my perspective, of course.

It is similar to how I feel about doing an audio edit. If a client listens to an edit and says "great edit", I haven't done a very good job. I've done a good job when the client says "Where's the edit? How did you do that?"

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
Click to expand...

Very interesting. If you are getting results that you feel are indistinguishable from the mike feed, that is remarkable. That is definitely the wholly grail.

I actually think using tape to capture straight two channel recordings would be done FOR the analog colorations....some feel the same way about DSD...

..which, I can't resist asking you about.....your thoughts? :D
 
Andre Marc said:
Very interesting. If you are getting results that you feel are indistinguishable from the mike feed, that is remarkable. That is definitely the wholly grail.

I actually think using tape to capture straight two channel recordings would be done FOR the analog colorations....some feel the same way about DSD...

..which, I can't resist asking you about.....your thoughts? :D
Click to expand...


Hi Andre,

Engineers will often choose certain microphones (or other gear, including recorders or even formats) for the colorations they add. My own preference is to avoid coloration (bad or good) and try to let the sound of the event itself determine what is heard on playback.

DSD? I know lots of folks who love it and I'd never argue with whatever brings anyone their listening pleasure. My take on it is that while it can offer better sound than ordinary CD (i.e., 16-bit, 44.1k PCM) in some ways, particularly in the lower half of the frequency spectrum, I find the treble somewhat discomforting and so, the format isn't my personal cup of sonic tea.

I attribute my feelings in this regard to what I perceive as a lack of dynamic range in the treble. Folks often speak of dynamic range as if what is true in one part of the frequency range is true in other parts. To my ears, some gear (or in this case, formats) exhibits dynamic range that varies with frequency. Lack of dynamics is one of my pet peeves in audio and is what I consider one of the last frontiers to getting music at home that sounds convincing.

As I said, I know lots of folks who love the format, but this only reinforces my experience over the years that different folks have different sensitivities to different aspects of sound. For all I know, there may be some who find my preferred (properly done) 24/192 to be sonically uncomfortable.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
 
bdiament said:
Hi Andre,

Engineers will often choose certain microphones (or other gear, including recorders or even formats) for the colorations they add. My own preference is to avoid coloration (bad or good) and try to let the sound of the event itself determine what is heard on playback.

DSD? I know lots of folks who love it and I'd never argue with whatever brings anyone their listening pleasure. My take on it is that while it can offer better sound than ordinary CD (i.e., 16-bit, 44.1k PCM) in some ways, particularly in the lower half of the frequency spectrum, I find the treble somewhat discomforting and so, the format isn't my personal cup of sonic tea.

I attribute my feelings in this regard to what I perceive as a lack of dynamic range in the treble. Folks often speak of dynamic range as if what is true in one part of the frequency range is true in other parts. To my ears, some gear (or in this case, formats) exhibits dynamic range that varies with frequency. Lack of dynamics is one of my pet peeves in audio and is what I consider one of the last frontiers to getting music at home that sounds convincing.

As I said, I know lots of folks who love the format, but this only reinforces my experience over the years that different folks have different sensitivities to different aspects of sound. For all I know, there may be some who find my preferred (properly done) 24/192 to be sonically uncomfortable.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
Click to expand...

Thanks for that insight. I find your comments valuable. Going back to the beginning of SACD, there were listeners who complained about a
a "softness" in the treble. Some actually thought this was a good thing in comparison to Redbook CD.

One follow up question if you don't mind...DSD from a technical/logistical/production point of view...to do what you
want, let's say for the session in the video..would DSD be viable? Would it be affordable? Would you have the post
production tools you need?

Thanks again.
 
Andre Marc said:
Thanks for that insight. I find your comments valuable. Going back to the beginning of SACD, there were listeners who complained about a
a "softness" in the treble. Some actually thought this was a good thing in comparison to Redbook CD.

One follow up question if you don't mind...DSD from a technical/logistical/production point of view...to do what you
want, let's say for the session in the video..would DSD be viable? Would it be affordable? Would you have the post
production tools you need?

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Hi Andre,

Interesting that some find the treble "soft". I would describe it as "hard". But then, every hears things differently from everyone else. What I find amazing are those times when folks hear things the same way. Of course, this does happen but in my experience, it doesn't happen as often as the opposite. (I have been awed by the unanimity in response from other engineers to the ULN-8. And most seem to notice almost immediately that it does bass like nothing else -- again, it doesn't sound "great", it just doesn't *sound* -- sounding more like bass in life than any recording device I've heard before.)

I believe the DSD tools certainly exist and can be attained at a cost comparable to tools for other formats. I just don't have any interest in them (even for free) because they can't accomplish what I seek. (I am aware that they *do* accomplish what some other engineers seek.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
 
bdiament said:
Hi Andre,

Interesting that some find the treble "soft". I would describe it as "hard". But then, every hears things differently from everyone else. What I find amazing are those times when folks hear things the same way. Of course, this does happen but in my experience, it doesn't happen as often as the opposite. (I have been awed by the unanimity in response from other engineers to the ULN-8. And most seem to notice almost immediately that it does bass like nothing else -- again, it doesn't sound "great", it just doesn't *sound* -- sounding more like bass in life than any recording device I've heard before.)

I believe the DSD tools certainly exist and can be attained at a cost comparable to tools for other formats. I just don't have any interest in them (even for free) because they can't accomplish what I seek. (I am aware that they *do* accomplish what some other engineers seek.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
Click to expand...

Yes, the disparity in listener conclusions is fascinating! Even Charles Hansen from Ayre, who made one of
the best SACD players I have heard, said he heard that softness, and prefers PCM, even with their
new DSD/PCM ADC.

I think it might be accurate to say that DSD is a valid format for purist, live captures or pure tape archiving. But it has not, and never will
take foothold in the arena where your typical rock and pop recording is multi tracked, cut and pasted, and sent to separate facilities for mixing
and mastering.

I listen to and purchase a LOT of new music by fresh young artists and the studio masters are 24 bit 44.1/48/96. I know of two current rock albums
mastered at 192, and both were mixed to tape..so it was just a matter of bouncing the final mix to PCM..and those titles are Jack White's Lazaretto and
David Crosby's Croz.
 
Hi Andre,

Almost all of the multitrack and mixed recordings I see coming in are done at 24/44.
Higher rates are not used simply because most systems will choke at higher rates with the number of tracks used in a typical mix. Hopefully, this will change in not too long but still, in my view, engineering techniques can use some improvement too. The problem is most seem to do what they see others do. And those others "learned" by watching others. The engineer who stops and asks questions is, in my experience, very rare to say the least.

"Why this mic?" "Why place it here?" "What did I do wrong in a previous step that makes me want to turn this knob? And what makes me think turning this knob will make things better?"
There are thousands of questions. If these are not asked, continually, for every step of the way (and upcoming engineering hopefuls taught to ask these continually), it does not speak well for the odds of getting answers.
And those answers are needed if we're going to get better than the typical sounds being released today.

Again, just my perspective. I always say, if you ask three audio folks a question, you will get at least four different answers. (And don't be surprised if five of them are wrong. ;-})

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
 
A purist!

I appreciate seeing that. We just did a recording using only a pair of mics, running into a pair of updated Western Electric mic preamps, which then drove the LP cutter electronics directly- no limiting, no processing of any sort.

We did some test cuts just to see how things sound and the artist was stunned. I am hoping for a release near Christmas.
 
Atmasphere said:
A purist!

I appreciate seeing that. We just did a recording using only a pair of mics, running into a pair of updated Western Electric mic preamps, which then drove the LP cutter electronics directly- no limiting, no processing of any sort.

We did some test cuts just to see how things sound and the artist was stunned. I am hoping for a release near Christmas.
Click to expand...

:D A purist for sure! Thank you.

My experience in recording, mixing and mastering (for vinyl, then CD) has taught me that at least 90-95% of a recording's ultimate sonic quality has already been determined by the time the signals are leaving the mics. (They haven't even entered the mic cables yet, much less been recorded.)

Your recording sounds like a project after my own heart.
Good luck! I hope it turns out exactly as you want it to.

What sort of music is it and what sort of instrumentation?
Where was it recorded?

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
 
bdiament said:
Your recording sounds like a project after my own heart.
Good luck! I hope it turns out exactly as you want it to.

What sort of music is it and what sort of instrumentation?
Where was it recorded?

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
Click to expand...

The musician is Paul Metzger (http://paulmetzger.net/)

We recorded it in our studio (where we also have our mastering operation), which is an irregular shaped room with surprisingly good acoustics.
 
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