Added second 20 amp line for amps

[Alrainbow]

Good rooms do not exist. We make the room good, although I use equipment to make an assessment of the room ? But I think listening is very important as well.

Al. D

 

[BlueFox]

I have been off all week, so the stereo is getting a lot of use. Anyway, it sounds great. The line is burning in, and appears settled. So far, I still smile and laugh at the music, so it must be working.

One thing I am noticing now is that I can hear "deeper" into the music. While at low levels (60-80db range) it is fine, at higher levels with rock I think I am hearing a digital artifact on top of the music. It is like a very high frequency, and faint, level of distortion above the music. It is hard to hear, but there when you concentrate. Between my recent upgrade to Shunyata Alpha Digital power cables on my file player and DAC, which removes high frequency noise generated by digital gear, and the addition of the second line, the ability to hear this is now possible. Also, it isn't something that makes music unlistenable, but more an annoyance once you notice it.


It is obviously common to both channels, and since it is on all songs, it isn't source related. My first guess is the DAC is the source. While the Bryston BDA2 is a great DAC, it is missing the filters found in higher end gear for various digital artifacts. So, the question is what is the upgrade without breaking the bank that can resolve this issue. On the other hand, I don't crank it that much either, so I can certainly live with it. Oh well, this is what makes this a fun hobby.

 

[mep]

I have been off all week, so the stereo is getting a lot of use. Anyway, it sounds great. The line is burning in, and appears settled. So far, I still smile and laugh at the music, so it must be working.

One thing I am noticing now is that I can hear "deeper" into the music. While at low levels (60-80db range) it is fine, at higher levels with rock I think I am hearing a digital artifact on top of the music. It is like a very high frequency, and faint, level of distortion above the music. It is hard to hear, but there when you concentrate. Between my recent upgrade to Shunyata Alpha Digital power cables on my file player and DAC, which removes high frequency noise generated by digital gear, and the addition of the second line, the ability to hear this is now possible. Also, it isn't something that makes music unlistenable, but more an annoyance once you notice it.


It is obviously common to both channels, and since it is on all songs, it isn't source related. My first guess is the DAC is the source. While the Bryston BDA2 is a great DAC, it is missing the filters found in higher end gear for various digital artifacts. So, the question is what is the upgrade without breaking the bank that can resolve this issue. On the other hand, I don't crank it that much either, so I can certainly live with it. Oh well, this is what makes this a fun hobby.

So are you saying that you had so much other noise going on in your system before all of the new wires and cables were upgraded that you couldn't really hear the noise for the noise until the noise was removed which then left some other noise sticking out to be heard?

 

[treitz3]

That would be correct. Here is what I offered to him via another communication source;

Hello and good morning to you, BlueFox.

Hmmm, do you have any tubes or gear that is possibly sensitive to vibrations in the mix? The reason I ask is that I experienced the same type of sound in my rig years ago. After adding tube dampers and isolation devices under the gear, this noise disappeared for good. The key words that struck me with what you said were, "It is like a very high frequency, and faint, level of distortion above the music". I heard the same thing and it seemed to follow the volume level and music transients.....always above the music, if you will, but definitely noticeable [albeit somewhat faint] and definitely annoying once you hear it.

I would also like to point out that I never noticed this until I upgraded some of my power and cabling to better performers that made the background extremely quiet. I had not noticed this prior to but once you hear it.....well, in my case, once I heard it.....it really detracted from the overall enjoyment of the music itself. Unwanted artifacts have a tendency to do that. I hope this helps and best of luck in chasing this. When it's gone, the music simply becomes sublime.

Oh, forgot one thing. If you do happen to have a tube(s) in the mix, what you may be hearing could be the result of microphonics. I would suggest trying the damping and vibration/isolation first of all of your gear [even if you use something temporary just to find out] and if that doesn't do it, you might want to start looking at a tube(s) as a suspect.

Tom

 

[GaryProtein]

So are you saying that you had so much other noise going on in your system before all of the new wires and cables were upgraded that you couldn't really hear the noise for the noise until the noise was removed which then left some other noise sticking out to be heard?

 

[BlueFox]

So are you saying that you had so much other noise going on in your system before all of the new wires and cables were upgraded that you couldn't really hear the noise for the noise until the noise was removed which then left some other noise sticking out to be heard?

Yes, pretty much. As each layer of grunge is removed another layer is exposed. Apparently, there are weaknesses in everything, and as one is fixed the next appears. This is like astronomy where with each advance we can see further back into time. Same concept here.

There are no tubes involved in this setup, so Tom's suggestion is out. I guess this is a reason why tube gear is popular. It's distortion hides all the other distortion in the gear.

However, now I am wondering if it is really me, and not the gear. I have a bit of tinnitus in my left year. In the past I have noticed certain frequencies (piano music) exacerbate it, but usually the music overrides it. Now I am wondering if this 'noise' is my tinnitus being aggravated by something else. It would be ironic if I improved the system so well that it makes it sound worse to me

 

[Alrainbow]

Wow , I do. It know what to say. Do you have Know any audiophiles that could come over and listen with you . I'm not saying your not hearing it. But two people are better than one.

Al. D

 

[mep]

Yes, pretty much. As each layer of grunge is removed another layer is exposed. Apparently, there are weaknesses in everything, and as one is fixed the next appears. This is like astronomy where with each advance we can see further back into time. Same concept here.

There are no tubes involved in this setup, so Tom's suggestion is out. I guess this is a reason why tube gear is popular. It's distortion hides all the other distortion in the gear.

I'm not buying into that theory. Are you talking about tube preamps or power amps or both?

However, now I am wondering if it is really me, and not the gear. I have a bit of tinnitus in my left year. In the past I have noticed certain frequencies (piano music) exacerbate it, but usually the music overrides it. Now I am wondering if this 'noise' is my tinnitus being aggravated by something else. It would be ironic if I improved the system so well that it makes it sound worse to me

You wouldn't be the first to make that statement. Ethan said once upon a time on this very forum that his system was so good that it made all of his music sound bad. I think at the time he claimed he only had a couple of CDs that sounded good on his system. If memory serves me correctly, he did some backpedaling after he realized the implications of what he said.

 

[mep]

Wow , I do. It know what to say. Do you have Know any audiophiles that could come over and listen with you . I'm not saying your not hearing it. But two people are better than one.

Al. D

There is someone on this forum who hears everything so I would call him.

 

[Alrainbow]

?.???

 

[mep]

?.???

It's a joke. Some people will get it.

 

[Alrainbow]

Ok I'm cool, I'm sure we all hear something sometimes and then we don't. Lol.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Have to 100% agree with Bud. I'm blessed by having a room with excellent acoustics to begin with, so I can't really comment on those who believe room acoustics trump everything in terms of priority. It's very live sounding with some minimal bass node/standing waves issues that I addressed judiciously by the installation of a couple of SpatialComputer BlackHole anti-bass wave generator/attenuators.
BUT...power issues have proved to be shockingly bad in my room. Music originally sounded, well like mud except after 10pm. Then my Burmester power conditioner improved things, but showed a regular +/-15!!!% fluctuation in voltage, a direct result of corrupted mains quality where I live which is semi-industrial with generators nearby, and broadband internet 24/7 in my apartment block, and a booster aerial next building.
Salvation came in the form first of Entreq grounding, and now a Westwick pro audio grade 85kg 8kVA balanced power transformer. The system is TRANSFORMED, very much as Bud has found in his system. Now, the original drive to replace compnents wholesale is obviated by the realisation that power was a complete bottleneck restricting the potential of my components.

 

[dallasjustice]

I'm blessed by having a room with excellent acoustics to begin with, so I can't really comment on those who believe room acoustics trump everything in terms of priority.

I'd love to see some before and after on those black hole devices. Do you have any REW measurements to show how well they work?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hi Dallas, my experience with the Black Hole (BH) is that it offers a significant, but subtle improvement. My previous Zu Definitions 2 spkrs were pretty unruly in the bass, but this device did a lot to tame bass overhang in my room. Going to overengineered balanced power has introduced further bass grip, but the BH was an important first step in taming my room.
Check out 'Audio Circle' forum board (go to 'Acoustic Circle' subforum), and 'Head Fi' forum ('Computer Audio' subforum).

 

[Chuck Lee]

A well treated room with no regard for the power will not guarantee great sound.

What I've learned in the last 15 years is that all the things you think won't make a difference, really do, but- you need to address all the issues and not just cherry pick.

To me it's about the holy trinity- room tuning, power conditioning and eliminating unwanted vibrations, which means placing your gear on real quality stands or racks.

Unless you address all three you really aren't hearing all that your gear was made to deliver.

And that goes for new and vintage kits.

Two out of three won't cut it.It doesn't matter matter how much you spend on power conditioning, you need room treatment, and vice versa.

I've also found that running a third 20 amp dedicated line just for the digital gear is another way to improve sound quality.

Then ,after the room is treated, the power is treated and the gear is mounted in a good rack,you can begin to fine tune.

Fine tune your system with better power cords, conditioners, fuses, inter-connects, speaker wires, tube rolling.

Then let's not forget about speaker placement and seating orientation.

For some this may seem like too much work and shouldn't I just be content to spin some discs?

It's all about the music isn't it?

For me it's about ALL the music.

And I've gotten more music out of my system since I went down the path I've taken.

 

[LL21]

Nice post and agree from my own personal experience...the sum of those parts (isolation, room treatment, power, etc) is definitely greater than the individual components.