Adjusting toe out
- Thread starter Gregadd
- Start date
He takes the outside of the left speaker back calling it toe out. I move the outside of the speaker forward calling it toe in.
You and Joe are both correct counselor.
Jack all I know is Neil is never wrong.
PS I think we are do some updates on your system. tt or something?
Prototype phonostage, changed out all my cabling to just one line from one manufacturer (not yet released on the market but should be soon), got my A90 back in action, new tonearm tower post had to be sent back so the additional arm is still in its case. Stuff like that. Still burning in the stuff but sounding good already. I'm in a TFK phase so the CV mullards are chillin' at the moment. I'll freshen up my system thread when things have settled down a bit. Oh! That reminds me, I have to make an announcement in the Lamm section. Thanks for keeping me on my toes Greg
I hope that wasn't meant sarcastically ;--) All I know is that in all the discussions I've ever heard/read about this issue, either the speakers were pointed straight ahead, or angled somewhat (IN) toward the listener or listening position. Toe OUT, which is a term I never heard until now, would imply to me that the speakers would be angled away from the listening position, and slightly toward the side walls of the room. Not something I think anyone interested in creating a soundstage would want to do?
You are right Mr. Obvious. If you toe speakers out, of course you are reducing the toe in.
hifitommy
Well-Known Member
getting away from stats or speakers whose radiation pattern is straight ahead, there may be speakers that could benefit from a bit of toe out. IMF and Fried speakers had 'controlled dispersion' with a radiation pattern that threw the image toward the center. i can imagine a setup using speakers like that could sound better that way, depending on the distance from speaker to the listener.
I recall putting my flashlight on top of my head for some reason.
Maybe I have a flat head?
He starts out with a lot of "toe in" and then reduces it by rotating the speaker "outward" calling it "toe out" . If the speaker was aimed directly at the user, the beam would illuminate the curved panel in the middle of the arc. He wants us to adjust the "toe in" so that the beam illuminates the arc of the panel at the inner third. So he is consistent, just using "toe in" and "toe out" to refer to which way to rotate the speaker from a starting point in the conventional sense we are accustomed to.
Just wanted to report that the flashlight method required some adjustments in my new space.
With speakers only 4'-9" center to center apart, best center image has flashlight reflection in middle of stat, not inner 1/3rd.
I am only 7 feet or so from speakers.
Not exactly nearfield but close to it.
Will have speakers min. 6 feet apart in about a month.
EDIT:
Changed toe-in again last night.
3/8 and 5/8
Vs standard
1/3 and 2/3
With speakers only 4'-9" center to center apart, best center image has flashlight reflection in middle of stat, not inner 1/3rd.
I am only 7 feet or so from speakers.
Not exactly nearfield but close to it.
Will have speakers min. 6 feet apart in about a month.
EDIT:
Changed toe-in again last night.
3/8 and 5/8
Vs standard
1/3 and 2/3
Last edited:
Every single room is different, not any one room is alike whatsoever!
Therefore, you simply have to experiment, it may take days, weeks, months but the end result is fully worth. Even when you add furnishings, wall hangings, carpets etc., things change again, and full range stats or panel type speakers will react to these added items, there's no way around it. Therefore, moderation is the key, don't overdo it, with heavy furnishings and extra damping, it will just kill the natural tones that ML stats are known for.
There's one chap that highly criticised my system just by looking at the photo of our new place. Since one panel (right channel) is more open to a corridor, he thought at once that there can't be possibly any good sound nor good bass definition. After a few visits, and these sessions went well into the wee hours of the morning, he just couldn't fathom the pristine quality and level of realism it's capable of, and that's all she wrote!
So as i said, every room is difficult to cater to, addressing it's parameters. Only the owner will ever truly understand their own room. Once you get to live and breathe in your room, you will understand the strengths and weaknesses of each component and overall how the system should be placed optimally.
As a matter of fact, the room is a component itself!
The flashlight method didn't work much according to the owners manual in our little shoe box apt... in fact the light reflection towards the centre was much more coherent. Then again in the new place, with much larger space, the owners manual flash light adjustments were spot on!
I've also noticed spikes, footers and those specialised Nordost SortFuts make an interesting change... again I would not comment if one is better than the other simply because the room interaction plays a huge role. I just stick with spikes (The supplied ones,).
Cheers, enjoy those tunes!
RJ
Therefore, you simply have to experiment, it may take days, weeks, months but the end result is fully worth. Even when you add furnishings, wall hangings, carpets etc., things change again, and full range stats or panel type speakers will react to these added items, there's no way around it. Therefore, moderation is the key, don't overdo it, with heavy furnishings and extra damping, it will just kill the natural tones that ML stats are known for.
There's one chap that highly criticised my system just by looking at the photo of our new place. Since one panel (right channel) is more open to a corridor, he thought at once that there can't be possibly any good sound nor good bass definition. After a few visits, and these sessions went well into the wee hours of the morning, he just couldn't fathom the pristine quality and level of realism it's capable of, and that's all she wrote!
So as i said, every room is difficult to cater to, addressing it's parameters. Only the owner will ever truly understand their own room. Once you get to live and breathe in your room, you will understand the strengths and weaknesses of each component and overall how the system should be placed optimally.
As a matter of fact, the room is a component itself!
The flashlight method didn't work much according to the owners manual in our little shoe box apt... in fact the light reflection towards the centre was much more coherent. Then again in the new place, with much larger space, the owners manual flash light adjustments were spot on!
I've also noticed spikes, footers and those specialised Nordost SortFuts make an interesting change... again I would not comment if one is better than the other simply because the room interaction plays a huge role. I just stick with spikes (The supplied ones,).
Cheers, enjoy those tunes!
RJ
For me, after months of agony, frustrated at the glare/hardness/shrillness/treble overshoot/boomy bass/bass overshoot in all positions except ultra near field, toe out did the trick. And there was none of these problems. And correctly arranged soundstage + centerstage attack. Every little degree of toe out mattered, and beyond a certain point, it became counter productive. I settled on an optimum discovered over a few weeks of effort. I doubted the results as being the consequence of faulty hearing on my part. But a few experienced audiophiles visited me and that settled the issue. Life is good.
I must confess, of all the things I've tried and there is a long list, toe out wasn't one of them.
cool_jeeves, do you have a "Member's System" thread yet?
You have perked my curiosity.
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