AppleTV X - I am playing with something new

[Xymox]

Dev betas tend to add features over time. So we will see. Maybe there is a more deeply buried option, say a per app setting.

Overall.. Pic and sound are the same quality wise so far. BUT huge bugs. Skipping can produce wierd sputters and dropouts. So ff and whwn you stop and play, it can be sputter. Lipsync was WAY off at one point. Frame rate issues with dolby vision and match frame rate on, this judder only occurs to the menus, material is fine.

Ive seen it loose cthe hardwired connection with even a reset not bringing it back. It saw the wired connection as soon as i hooked to wifi. It connected to wifi and then immd went to wired.

REMEMBER Betas can BRICK your ATVX. DONT DO BETAS.. And Development betas, your asking to get bricked. NEVER do dev beta or beta ! No one can unbrick them.

I am always testing betas. If i brick mine i can replace it.

I did brick one not long ago. I was on a public beta and was playing with a Lumagen. I forced the ATV into a weird HDMI video spec and that was that. On boot now it just has a front LED flash sequence and never boots or even turns on HDMI.. So it CAN be bricked. Be warned. Betas are bad.

 

[Zeotrope]

If you want to use the Appletv4k recommended settings with a HDR or Dolby Vision 4k display, set it in video settings to 4k SDR, match for both dynamic range and frame rate - at least this worked for my then Sony VW5000ES projector (theater under renovation, with a Sony GTZ-380 replacing) and works great for my basement 65" LG OLED. But with Chris' Appletv-X, you will want to play with not matching dynamic range to "see" if SDR looks better than HDR even for HDR material (I found after months of Appletv-X burn-in with my basement OLED that usually but not always
I like matching the dynamic range.

I am already using an external DAC. HDMI out of ATVX into Lumagen 5348, then into Trinnov A32. AES digital out from Trinnov into a 2 ch DAC for the main channels, using the Trinnov DACs for the other channels.

 

[jbrrp1]

Dev betas tend to add features over time. So we will see. Maybe there is a more deeply buried option, say a per app setting.

Overall.. Pic and sound are the same quality wise so far. BUT huge bugs. Skipping can produce wierd sputters and dropouts. So ff and whwn you stop and play, it can be sputter. Lipsync was WAY off at one point. Frame rate issues with dolby vision and match frame rate on, this judder only occurs to the menus, material is fine.

Ive seen it loose cthe hardwired connection with even a reset not bringing it back. It saw the wired connection as soon as i hooked to wifi. It connected to wifi and then immd went to wired.

REMEMBER Betas can BRICK your ATVX. DONT DO BETAS.. And Development betas, your asking to get bricked. NEVER do dev beta or beta ! No one can unbrick them.

I am always testing betas. If i brick mine i can replace it.

I did brick one not long ago. I was on a public beta and was playing with a Lumagen. I forced the ATV into a weird HDMI video spec and that was that. On boot now it just has a front LED flash sequence and never boots or even turns on HDMI.. So it CAN be bricked. Be warned. Betas are bad.

I'm totally new to Apple TV with my new TVX. What do we need to know to avoid allowing a beta update?

 

[Xymox]

I'm totally new to Apple TV with my new TVX. What do we need to know to avoid allowing a beta update?

Your very safe.. To get into the Apple Beta program you have to sign up.. Even then you have to choose the beta from the ATV and agree a few times. The Developer Beta I am on requires a Apple Developer account, that requires more hurdles and then on the ATV you get even more beta options and warnings. So there is zero chanch unless you do it VERY intentionally and agree to stuff..

Generally,,, I suggest to turn off auto updates. At some point Apple might do something stupid and screw up the pic or sound with some update and there is no going backwards in Apple updates. I will post here if a update is OK. Then manually update. In the last 2 years tho all updates have been mostly OK. The only issue has been when the current firmware turned on weird power saving things, these cause the ATVX to turn off when you turn off the TV. You have to disable CEC in the TV menus. In the Sony its called Bravia Sync. The ATVX light on the ATV should ALWAYS stay on, 24/7. This is super important to performance.

New updates from Apple have been good bringing better picture & sound and new useful features, so, updates have been worthwhile, but, I would turn off auto update and check here on the forum before manually updating.

 

[Xymox]

I am already using an external DAC. HDMI out of ATVX into Lumagen 5348, then into Trinnov A32. AES digital out from Trinnov into a 2 ch DAC for the main channels, using the Trinnov DACs for the other channels.

Yep.. Thats a fun way to do it. The trinnov is great for digital processing, but, like you did, a external 2ch DAC can be better then the Trinnov DACs.

The other popular way to hook this up is to just do 2ch. Typically ATVX > HDMI > flat panel > optical > high end 2ch DAC. Then set the ATVX to "change mode" and "Stereo".. This produces the best sound, but 2 ch. But the imaging is OMG.

I know a lot of people are happy with a Lumagen, but, I just can't get a better picture VS without it and the right settings on the TV. Same for the Mad VR. I am a purist and SMPTE post production colorist kinda level and am overly picky. I believe less is better for a signal path in digital processing. HOWEVER, a projector could benifit from some of the tools in a Lumagen. Sony OLED I think is best without extra processing. I do respect others liking post processing like Lumagen and MadVR tho. Each person is different and what is good for me is not the same for others.

 

[Xymox]

TV0s26...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..........

Most buggey Dev Beta I have ever seen. Like big face plants. Last night the AppleTV menu screen got stuck on the screen. I could see the ATV menu behind it and could operate the ATV and even start other apps but the AppleTV menu screen just stayed up, hahaha.. A power cycle was required to clear it, a restart might have done it, but, I could not see the settings menu..

The wierd 1/4 second sound stutters when playing/un pausing is on most everything. Not really a issue just a obvious issue.

Other weird issues like Pluto TV when it goes into and comes back from commercial the countdown timer in the upper corner never goes away and your left with it in the show just static there.

There have been app crashes. Just gone..

The update did not kill off open apps so when the app opened after going from 18 to 26 most apps where just stuck and spinny circle.

There is a weird issue with the "reduce loud sounds" and the newer audio stuff like "voice isolation" and "enhance Dialog".. This is slow to adapt and has weird changes..

Apple Music continues to sound more compressed, at least to me on stuff I play in the background while working.

The AppleTV app continues to improve. I love the way it has everything you have watched across all other apps all in one place. I have noticed that now if you search from the AppleTV app things show Tomato scores for things across all apps. This is awesome. I like using just one app to search ALL the other apps for content. I expect this to get better.

So TVos 26 has some cool things, its pretty menus for sure, BUT, Its the most unstable Dev Beta I have ever seen and I would not be surprized if I bricked a ATV with it. So dont do this. BUT it shows we have some cool things coming. As more updates occur I expect more features and will post here about them. So Apple is making the ATVX better

 

[Robert_NP]

That there are music streamers and DACs well into five figures, yet the best devices for streaming video for home theatre were under $200, always puzzled me. Imagine my delight when I stumbled on this thread and saw that someone has gone above and beyond to make an upgraded streamer for HT use.
The Apple TV-X has been in my home theatre system for 3+ weeks. Initially I questioned the device and my sanity for spending so much and getting little improvement in return. My expectations were perhaps unreal: 4K picture clarity or improved sound even from lesser sources. Fortunately, over the time it’s been in place, the unit continued to break-in, as did my expectations, and I am starting to see more (brighter, greater detail and colors) and hear more (louder with a bit more clarity) than before. Yay!
In context, I also realized that picture improvements may be somewhat limited by my TV, a six-year-old Sony Bravia. I always enjoyed the picture, and would go for another Sony when the time comes to bump up. Even now, the picture looks really good. However, technology marches on and I suspect today’s TVs could provide a better viewing experience on which ATVX could work its magic.
Thankfully, my home theatre has seen benefit from ATVX. Transformational? No. Better? Yes, but not overwhelmingly so. The improvements are more subtle. Does it warrant the expense? Hmmm… Would I have been better off upgrading my TV instead? Hmmm… Would I prefer a backlit remote? Absolutely! (that’s on Apple, not the ATVX). A great deal of time and energy went into product development, and Chris should be proud of what he has accomplished. Is ATVX for everyone? I don’t think so. This discussion lives in the What’s BEST Forum, and this seems to be the BEST of its kind. Such is the entry fee for a bump in quality beyond the mass market video streamers.
Something pertinent I found is the impact of cables on sound and picture quality. My system is both home theatre and stereo, with way more invested on the stereo side despite it being barely 15% of my listening/ entertainment time. When I listen to music, I want it to sound really good, and it does. This thread indicated the power supply benefited from a good power cord, so I connected it to a good (not great) power cord. I tested various HDMI cables in my arsenal, and the differences in picture and sound quality were small enough not to lose sleep over the HDMI cable connections (I still use my best ones).
The ethernet cable was a different story. I have a good ethernet cable on the HT side and a better one on the stereo side. For giggles, I swapped them and placed the better ethernet cable on the HT side and WOW! Better picture and sound; I’m talking MUCH better. Brightness increased, colors popped, and the sound was more present in the room. If a better cable made that kind of difference, what would a MUCH better ethernet cable do? I just got a much better ethernet cable and the picture and sound quality improved a bit more, but not exponentially beyond what the very good cable provided. Perhaps better eyes or ears could discern the difference, but this appears a case of diminishing returns after a point. Still, the combination of a very good ethernet cable, plus good power and HDMI cables were additive. After the ATVX and ethernet cable upgrade, plus lots of experimentation, my HT system is performing at a level I really enjoy.

Robert

 

[jbrrp1]

That there are music streamers and DACs well into five figures, yet the best devices for streaming video for home theatre were under $200, always puzzled me. Imagine my delight when I stumbled on this thread and saw that someone has gone above and beyond to make an upgraded streamer for HT use.
The Apple TV-X has been in my home theatre system for 3+ weeks. Initially I questioned the device and my sanity for spending so much and getting little improvement in return. My expectations were perhaps unreal: 4K picture clarity or improved sound even from lesser sources. Fortunately, over the time it’s been in place, the unit continued to break-in, as did my expectations, and I am starting to see more (brighter, greater detail and colors) and hear more (louder with a bit more clarity) than before. Yay!
In context, I also realized that picture improvements may be somewhat limited by my TV, a six-year-old Sony Bravia. I always enjoyed the picture, and would go for another Sony when the time comes to bump up. Even now, the picture looks really good. However, technology marches on and I suspect today’s TVs could provide a better viewing experience on which ATVX could work its magic.
Thankfully, my home theatre has seen benefit from ATVX. Transformational? No. Better? Yes, but not overwhelmingly so. The improvements are more subtle. Does it warrant the expense? Hmmm… Would I have been better off upgrading my TV instead? Hmmm… Would I prefer a backlit remote? Absolutely! (that’s on Apple, not the ATVX). A great deal of time and energy went into product development, and Chris should be proud of what he has accomplished. Is ATVX for everyone? I don’t think so. This discussion lives in the What’s BEST Forum, and this seems to be the BEST of its kind. Such is the entry fee for a bump in quality beyond the mass market video streamers.
Something pertinent I found is the impact of cables on sound and picture quality. My system is both home theatre and stereo, with way more invested on the stereo side despite it being barely 15% of my listening/ entertainment time. When I listen to music, I want it to sound really good, and it does. This thread indicated the power supply benefited from a good power cord, so I connected it to a good (not great) power cord. I tested various HDMI cables in my arsenal, and the differences in picture and sound quality were small enough not to lose sleep over the HDMI cable connections (I still use my best ones).
The ethernet cable was a different story. I have a good ethernet cable on the HT side and a better one on the stereo side. For giggles, I swapped them and placed the better ethernet cable on the HT side and WOW! Better picture and sound; I’m talking MUCH better. Brightness increased, colors popped, and the sound was more present in the room. If a better cable made that kind of difference, what would a MUCH better ethernet cable do? I just got a much better ethernet cable and the picture and sound quality improved a bit more, but not exponentially beyond what the very good cable provided. Perhaps better eyes or ears could discern the difference, but this appears a case of diminishing returns after a point. Still, the combination of a very good ethernet cable, plus good power and HDMI cables were additive. After the ATVX and ethernet cable upgrade, plus lots of experimentation, my HT system is performing at a level I really enjoy.

Robert

Interesting report @Robert_NP. I'm pretty recent to this device, too, and I'd love to know more about the specific ethernet cables you swapped for comparisons. This is clearly an avenue I need to cultivate more. Please do tell!

 

[Robert_NP]

Interesting report @Robert_NP. I'm pretty recent to this device, too, and I'd love to know more about the specific ethernet cables you swapped for comparisons. This is clearly an avenue I need to cultivate more. Please do tell!

Cables are like politics: a potentially explosive topic. I really didn't want to name brand names, since they essentially are components, and budget and system dependent. Would a $200 cable be end game for your system, or is that where you are now, thus going to a better (e.g., more expensive-: $800? $1500?) cable will give you that big bump you crave? PM me if you want specifics.

 

[Robert_NP]

Interesting report @Robert_NP. I'm pretty recent to this device, too, and I'd love to know more about the specific ethernet cables you swapped for comparisons. This is clearly an avenue I need to cultivate more. Please do tell!

OK, sports fans, as someone else asked for info, here are the gritty details of my ethernet cable journey. Read at your own peril, take from it what you will.

I started off a few years ago with a DH Labs Reunion cable. Their cables are good quality, good value. After a while I thought I would move up to a Shunyata Venom-X cable. In my system at that time, differences (improvements) from DH Labs to the Venom-X were subtle, but it was better. Soon after, I grabbed an opportunity for a one rung up the Shunyata ladder Delta cable, but the improvement wasn't there, sold it.

Fast forward and I started to invest my hard-earned retirement funds on better equipment, attaching and building a very nice stereo side to my home theatre system. I was dabbling with Audience Front Row cables (interconnects, speaker and USB), and got their Hidden Treasure ethernet cable. That cable is a keeper, was noticeably better for me. As a side note, I sold the Audience interconnects and USB, as they just weren't a good fit. Their Front Row cables are my L/R speaker cables, and they sound great in my system.

The Venom-X cable connected to home theatre, and Hidden Treasure to stereo. I am deviating from the topic just a bit, but all these things are connected, and imho, matter. I couldn't resist upgrading my LHY ethernet switch to a Network Acoustics Tempus, along with their Muon Pro filter. BIG bump in cost, better sound. Worth the difference? Hmmm... Btw, an audiophile friend bought Chris' Switch-X ethernet switch (same guy that makes the ATVX we invested in) and is very happy with it.

As previously stated, I have only had the ATVX for a short while. I was struggling to wring better quality from it (patience, which often eludes me, helped by letting it break in), then I came upon the idea to swap cables and put my Hidden Treasure in the home theatre loop. Yowza! Much, much better. Not being able to leave well enough alone, and having a window of opportunity from my wife (we agreed to give each other a no questions asked "fun money" budget that I am close to exhausting), I wanted to better the Audience Hidden Treasure.

Shunyata is a quality company (i have a bunch of their power cables and power conditioner) and their version 2 cables are getting excellent reviews. I felt an Alpha-X version 2 would be a good upgrade option, but the company is backlogged with orders, so availability is tight. Then I stumbled onto a good deal for a used Omega, their flagship cable, and grabbed it. The Omega is ridiculously priced, but they are generally held in the highest regard. It's silly money to pay for a cable, but if it is as good as owners and reviewers say... I've done some things I regretted in this hobby, and if this was one more, so be it; I went for it.
This is where I will say the Omega is better than the Hidden Treasure, but not miles and miles better. My DAC is being upgraded at the moment, and when it comes back, I will try both ethernet cables to see where they work better for me. Either way, I know I have excellent cables, and the Omega makes my TV look and sound better than ever. If Omega raises the bar more on the stereo side, I will be OK living with Hidden Treasure in the HT loop. Either way, I viewed it as a win-win.

OK, I did what I didn't want to do (name names), but a couple of people asked for it, and I hereby oblige. I hope this is helpful.
Robert

 

[orange55]

I can agree that both the quality of the Ethernet and HDMI cables have a big impact in my system in the Apple TV. Mine also has supports under it and a weight on top.

 

[Robert_NP]

I can understand the supports (vibration isolation?) underneath, but why the weight on top?

 

[orange55]

I can understand the supports (vibration isolation?) underneath, but why the weight on top?

Helps dampen the casework. I use them on all components including power supplies, routers, switches. Calms the sound.

 

[eldogo]

Helps dampen the casework. I use them on all components including power supplies, routers, switches. Calms the sound.

Interesting. Can you please share a photo?

 

[eldogo]

I can agree that both the quality of the Ethernet and HDMI cables have a big impact in my system in the Apple TV. Mine also has supports under it and a weight on top.

I’ve used a Cryogenic Ethernet cable from Omega Mikro and sounds great for music, but for movies, I think it makes vocals sound thin. So I’ve reverted back to Wireworld.

 

[jbrrp1]

OK, sports fans, as someone else asked for info, here are the gritty details of my ethernet cable journey. Read at your own peril, take from it what you will.

I started off a few years ago with a DH Labs Reunion cable. Their cables are good quality, good value. After a while I thought I would move up to a Shunyata Venom-X cable. In my system at that time, differences (improvements) from DH Labs to the Venom-X were subtle, but it was better. Soon after, I grabbed an opportunity for a one rung up the Shunyata ladder Delta cable, but the improvement wasn't there, sold it.

Fast forward and I started to invest my hard-earned retirement funds on better equipment, attaching and building a very nice stereo side to my home theatre system. I was dabbling with Audience Front Row cables (interconnects, speaker and USB), and got their Hidden Treasure ethernet cable. That cable is a keeper, was noticeably better for me. As a side note, I sold the Audience interconnects and USB, as they just weren't a good fit. Their Front Row cables are my L/R speaker cables, and they sound great in my system.

The Venom-X cable connected to home theatre, and Hidden Treasure to stereo. I am deviating from the topic just a bit, but all these things are connected, and imho, matter. I couldn't resist upgrading my LHY ethernet switch to a Network Acoustics Tempus, along with their Muon Pro filter. BIG bump in cost, better sound. Worth the difference? Hmmm... Btw, an audiophile friend bought Chris' Switch-X ethernet switch (same guy that makes the ATVX we invested in) and is very happy with it.

As previously stated, I have only had the ATVX for a short while. I was struggling to wring better quality from it (patience, which often eludes me, helped by letting it break in), then I came upon the idea to swap cables and put my Hidden Treasure in the home theatre loop. Yowza! Much, much better. Not being able to leave well enough alone, and having a window of opportunity from my wife (we agreed to give each other a no questions asked "fun money" budget that I am close to exhausting), I wanted to better the Audience Hidden Treasure.

Shunyata is a quality company (i have a bunch of their power cables and power conditioner) and their version 2 cables are getting excellent reviews. I felt an Alpha-X version 2 would be a good upgrade option, but the company is backlogged with orders, so availability is tight. Then I stumbled onto a good deal for a used Omega, their flagship cable, and grabbed it. The Omega is ridiculously priced, but they are generally held in the highest regard. It's silly money to pay for a cable, but if it is as good as owners and reviewers say... I've done some things I regretted in this hobby, and if this was one more, so be it; I went for it.
This is where I will say the Omega is better than the Hidden Treasure, but not miles and miles better. My DAC is being upgraded at the moment, and when it comes back, I will try both ethernet cables to see where they work better for me. Either way, I know I have excellent cables, and the Omega makes my TV look and sound better than ever. If Omega raises the bar more on the stereo side, I will be OK living with Hidden Treasure in the HT loop. Either way, I viewed it as a win-win.

OK, I did what I didn't want to do (name names), but a couple of people asked for it, and I hereby oblige. I hope this is helpful.
Robert

Thanks for spilling the tea! Much appreciated.

 

[orange55]

I’ve used a Cryogenic Ethernet cable from Omega Mikro and sounds great for music, but for movies, I think it makes vocals sound thin. So I’ve reverted back to Wireworld.

I use a Chord Company Sarum Ethernet and Chord Company Epic for HDMI. That is their top of range HDMI and it is the best I have tried and I tried a lot. Thank goodness for 30 day trails.

 

[orange55]

Interesting. Can you please share a photo?

Here you go.

 

[Zeotrope]

That there are music streamers and DACs well into five figures, yet the best devices for streaming video for home theatre were under $200, always puzzled me. Imagine my delight when I stumbled on this thread and saw that someone has gone above and beyond to make an upgraded streamer for HT use.
The Apple TV-X has been in my home theatre system for 3+ weeks. Initially I questioned the device and my sanity for spending so much and getting little improvement in return. My expectations were perhaps unreal: 4K picture clarity or improved sound even from lesser sources. Fortunately, over the time it’s been in place, the unit continued to break-in, as did my expectations, and I am starting to see more (brighter, greater detail and colors) and hear more (louder with a bit more clarity) than before. Yay!
In context, I also realized that picture improvements may be somewhat limited by my TV, a six-year-old Sony Bravia. I always enjoyed the picture, and would go for another Sony when the time comes to bump up. Even now, the picture looks really good. However, technology marches on and I suspect today’s TVs could provide a better viewing experience on which ATVX could work its magic.
Thankfully, my home theatre has seen benefit from ATVX. Transformational? No. Better? Yes, but not overwhelmingly so. The improvements are more subtle. Does it warrant the expense? Hmmm… Would I have been better off upgrading my TV instead? Hmmm… Would I prefer a backlit remote? Absolutely! (that’s on Apple, not the ATVX). A great deal of time and energy went into product development, and Chris should be proud of what he has accomplished. Is ATVX for everyone? I don’t think so. This discussion lives in the What’s BEST Forum, and this seems to be the BEST of its kind. Such is the entry fee for a bump in quality beyond the mass market video streamers.
Something pertinent I found is the impact of cables on sound and picture quality. My system is both home theatre and stereo, with way more invested on the stereo side despite it being barely 15% of my listening/ entertainment time. When I listen to music, I want it to sound really good, and it does. This thread indicated the power supply benefited from a good power cord, so I connected it to a good (not great) power cord. I tested various HDMI cables in my arsenal, and the differences in picture and sound quality were small enough not to lose sleep over the HDMI cable connections (I still use my best ones).
The ethernet cable was a different story. I have a good ethernet cable on the HT side and a better one on the stereo side. For giggles, I swapped them and placed the better ethernet cable on the HT side and WOW! Better picture and sound; I’m talking MUCH better. Brightness increased, colors popped, and the sound was more present in the room. If a better cable made that kind of difference, what would a MUCH better ethernet cable do? I just got a much better ethernet cable and the picture and sound quality improved a bit more, but not exponentially beyond what the very good cable provided. Perhaps better eyes or ears could discern the difference, but this appears a case of diminishing returns after a point. Still, the combination of a very good ethernet cable, plus good power and HDMI cables were additive. After the ATVX and ethernet cable upgrade, plus lots of experimentation, my HT system is performing at a level I really enjoy.

Robert

What you are illustrating here is that other components in the chain/system must also be at a similar level in terms of noise reduction, or the benefits of the ATVX will be diminished.
In my case, the image quality is so good I never use my Kaleidescape anymore.

 

[eldogo]

What you are illustrating here is that other components in the chain/system must also be at a similar level in terms of noise reduction, or the benefits of the ATVX will be diminished.
In my case, the image quality is so good I never use my Kaleidescape anymore.

Makes sense. I believe you shared before, but what do you have in your ATVX chain?