Are Transports Obsolete?

It surprises me in this day and age that transports continue to be developed, and presumably sold. I know this has at least been in part to the physical media aspects of spinning one's CD library. Also, Transports, particularly of the cost no object variety, can be more 'sexy' than servers.

We 'know' that server technology has, for all intents and purposes, eclipsed transports in the last few years, but the best of the best transports continue to garner enthusiasm if not raves from some reviewers that I really respect.

Are there any out there that, having bought a server, have recently been drawn back or towards the world of transports?
What is your server and why and what transports have you or are you reconsidering?

 

For the purpose of spinning several CDs per year I just ordered newly launched Denafrips Avatar CDT (https://www.denafrips.com/avatar ) after a colleague of ours tried it and compared with Esoteric he owns and his comment was "Run and don't ask"...so I did exactly that

Please share your impressions
Thanks

Matt

 

For most of the brands/models, the transports & dac are designed together and there must be a synergistic effect.

This is only the case when they are poorly designed. A good transport can be used with ANY DAC, just as a good DAC can be used with any decent transport.

The only real system synergy is between speakers and amps, and that is only because speakers are so imperfect. The rest is myth.

 

This is only the case when they are poorly designed. A good transport can be used with ANY DAC, just as a good DAC can be used with any decent transport.

The only real system synergy is between speakers and amps, and that is only because speakers are so imperfect. The rest is myth.

This has been my experience too, better transports always shine no matter which DAC you mate them with as do better DACs, they'll work with everything and show you the strengths and shortcomings of their source. There are a few CD players that I really like but suck as standalone transports or DACs and I know that neither section is quite right, just work together fine as a system.

david

 

This is only the case when they are poorly designed. A good transport can be used with ANY DAC, just as a good DAC can be used with any decent transport.

The only real system synergy is between speakers and amps, and that is only because speakers are so imperfect. The rest is myth.

No, in my experience this sometimes happens with exceptional systems - that you would probably consider poorly designed according to your standards - that aim to give us more than the average performance obtained with random mix.

Fortunately what some people consider myths helps most of us in assembling great sounding systems and great musical experiences. And for many of us this is the essence of the hobby.

 

This has been my experience too, better transports always shine no matter which DAC you mate them with as do better DACs, they'll work with everything and show you the strengths and shortcomings of their source. There are a few CD players that I really like but suck as standalone transports or DACs and I know that neither section is quite right, just work together fine as a system.

david

David,

Can you list a few transports you like besides your great CEC TL0?

Did you ever look at the jitter measurements of the transports that you consider the "better" transports?

 

David,

Can you list a few transports you like besides your great CEC TL0?

Did you ever look at the jitter measurements of the transports that you consider the "better" transports?

ML 30.5, CEC TL1X, Goldmund Eidos which I didn't own but had in house for a little while. I had the Forsell combo too which I really liked at the time but the transport was too finicky. Top two were and still are the CEC TL0x and the Levinson 30.5 in a strong 2nd place and a lot of it comes down to the natural quality of their bass reproduction. Just FYI, I still own use these transports and probably a dozen more that I don't.

david

 

ML 30.5, CEC TL1X, Goldmund Eidos which I didn't own but had in house for a little while. I had the Forsell combo too which I really liked at the time but the transport was too finicky. Top two were and still are the CEC TL0x and the Levinson 30.5 in a strong 2nd place and a lot of it comes down to the natural quality of their bass reproduction. Just FYI, I still own use these transports and probably a dozen more that I don't.

david

Well, we share the preference for a few of them - including the famous Forsell. But what we find the natural quality of their bass reproduction is most probably a very spiced jitter signature ...

BTW, I appreciated a lot the Mark Levinson 30-31 and the Forsell combos, but swapping the transports and DACs was a disaster - we tried it!

 

Well, we share the preference for a few of them - including the famous Forsell. But what we find the natural quality of their bass reproduction is most probably a very spiced jitter signature ...

BTW, I appreciated a lot the Mark Levinson 30-31 and the Forsell combos, but swapping the transports and DACs was a disaster - we tried it!

I agree with the Levinson DAC experience but the transport to this day is still one the best. In these experiments the conductor between the transport and the DAC is often neglected when in fact is incredibly important and can easily the break the setup.

Why do you say the bass quality is spiced jitter signature? What does natural high quality sound has to do with a lot of jitter? I tried several clocks with their respective DACs and other devices like the Genesis lens and every case I found the sound less natural and more mechanical. Same with 110ohm EBS/EBU XLR, 75ohm coax bnc and various glass connectors from Goldmnund, Altis and others in the end lowly SPDIF sounded most natural to me. Might be taste but I always prefer SE to balanced in my systems.

david

 

ML 30.5, CEC TL1X, Goldmund Eidos which I didn't own but had in house for a little while. I had the Forsell combo too which I really liked at the time but the transport was too finicky. Top two were and still are the CEC TL0x and the Levinson 30.5 in a strong 2nd place and a lot of it comes down to the natural quality of their bass reproduction. Just FYI, I still own use these transports and probably a dozen more that I don't.

david

Both the Levinson 30.5 and the Forsell uses the same Phillips pro mechanism, also used in the Primare 204 that is my preferred transport at the moment. Very little data correction or buffering, go figure !

 

Both the Levinson 30.5 and the Forsell uses the same Phillips pro mechanism, also used in the Primare 204 that is my preferred transport at the moment. Very little data correction or buffering, go figure !

I think the Forsell used a Pioneer drive.

david

 

I think the Forsell used a Pioneer drive.

david

No, you place the CD upside down on the Forsell like on some of the Pioneer drives, but the mechanisms is a Phillips CDM9pro.

 

No, you place the CD upside down on the Forsell like on some of the Pioneer drives, but the mechanisms is a Phillips CD9pro.

Didn't know that.

david

 

 

Krell used them to in their early top loaders. And Dan got pissed when Phillips discontinued it. He researched drives an decided the best drive in the market was the JVC pro drive, used in the Victor machines. JVC promised they would make a laser update for SACD, but their manufacturing machine broke and they decided not to replace it. Meanwhile Dan had designed the KPS 25 around the JVC drive and got screwed again. So did Reimyo.

 

Krell used them to in their early top loaders. And Dan got pissed when Phillips discontinued it. He researched drives an decided the best drive in the market was the JVC pro drive, used in the Victor machines. JVC promised they would make a laser update for SACD, but their manufacturing machine broke and they decided not to replace it. Meanwhile Dan had designed the KPS 25 around the JVC drive and got screwed again. So did Reimyo.

Digitally screwed !
david

 

I agree with the Levinson DAC experience but the transport to this day is still one the best. In these experiments the conductor between the transport and the DAC is often neglected when in fact is incredibly important and can easily the break the setup.

Why do you say the bass quality is spiced jitter signature? What does natural high quality sound has to do with a lot of jitter? I tried several clocks with their respective DACs and other devices like the Genesis lens and every case I found the sound less natural and more mechanical. Same with 110ohm EBS/EBU XLR, 75ohm coax bnc and various glass connectors from Goldmnund, Altis and others in the end lowly SPDIF sounded most natural to me. Might be taste but I always prefer SE to balanced in my systems.

david

Jitter can be euphonic, so it's best not to go down that path. My rule of thumb is if you hear more detail, this is usually the right path. If you hear echoes or halos, this is usually jitter.

BNC cables will outperform AES/EBU most of the time because the impedance is hard to match and make consistent in a twisted-pair cable with XLR connectors.

 

Both the Levinson 30.5 and the Forsell uses the same Phillips pro mechanism, also used in the Primare 204 that is my preferred transport at the moment. Very little data correction or buffering, go figure !

The 31.5 did not use the CDM 9pro drive.

It had a industrial cdrom.

I never warmed up to the 31.5 although it was very detailed, dynamic and thunderous solid bass, more so than the Forsell.

The Forsell still has the most analogue sound i have experienced, especially so with the Forsell dac.

It also had a Touch of that 300b inner glow, tine and timbre to music reproduction, but alas, found it best for jazz, small ensemble, opera and vocals.

Up to today, from my memories, nothing has comes close.

With the advancement in digital, however, openess, clarity, details and refinement has come a long way for top digital rigs back in the 90's.

It never could do it for well rock or pop, but have fond memories of the Forsell combo and i still keep the spare CDM 9 pro drive till today direct from the Forsell factory while it was still operating.

 

The Goldmund Eidos I agree is very good as a transport (Pioneer base)as I have one.
However the Moon 260DT is a relatively inexpensive way to get first class sound.
Yes my AES/EBU cable also costs more than the transport.....

 

I still own my ML 31.5 Transport and 30.6 Dac. I would never part with them but I moved onto a custom built server and Gryphon Kalliope DAC.

For my ears the ML combo cannot compete. Then there is the massive convenience of having digital files and JRiver to manage the library etc. There are all the other potential pluses for servers/streamers but for me it comes down to SQ (for my ears/brain).

The caveat is I have not tried more recent CD players or combos.

Interestingly, the first DAC/ server combo I swapped my Levinsons for was the Bricasti M1 DAC. It came from the same (partly) design team as the original madrigal team behind the ML 31/30 series and before Harmon ditched the ML reference products. I was lucky enough to have dinner with the Bricasti founder when he visited this country (Oz). I think the Bricasti has some similar traits to the ML and is a fine DAC. The Gryphon Kalliope just blew me away. More natural than say the MSB DACs although I am frightened to listen to a Select II.

 

The 31.5 did not use the CDM 9pro drive.

It had a industrial cdrom.

I never warmed up to the 31.5 although it was very detailed, dynamic and thunderous solid bass, more so than the Forsell.

The Forsell still has the most analogue sound i have experienced, especially so with the Forsell dac.

It also had a Touch of that 300b inner glow, tine and timbre to music reproduction, but alas, found it best for jazz, small ensemble, opera and vocals.

Up to today, from my memories, nothing has comes close.

With the advancement in digital, however, openess, clarity, details and refinement has come a long way for top digital rigs back in the 90's.

It never could do it for well rock or pop, but have fond memories of the Forsell combo and i still keep the spare CDM 9 pro drive till today direct from the Forsell factory while it was still operating.

You are right, they apparently changed to a CD rom drive in the second version, i stand corrected I never owned one.