At Last! My new baby has been delivered?

[Hear Here]

I received my M33 about 2 weeks ago. Sound is fine, but as noted above there are several irritants with my unit. #1 is the fact that the unit is currently not working! The unit will turn on, but will not initiate the m33 start screen and just sits there with a dark screen. Troughout the past couple of weeks my unit would turn on but not boot up about every 4th or 5th time, to the point that the main power switch on the back would have to be cycled, then a boot up would be successful. However tonight, while listening through the line in, the screen suddenly went dark and I lost sound, and now no matter of cycling/unplugging will get it to boot up. Severe bummer!

Previous to all that, I had also noticed a distinct sound during startup that can only be described as a high pitched digital like switching, comparable to the sound a mechanical hard drive makes, but higher in pitch. It was loud enough to be heard from 10 feet away, but after initializing it would go away. However, when the unit wouldn't initialize, that sound would persist until I would switch off the rear main power. Now that sound is all I can hear when I turn it on. I have a feeling the whatever houses the operating system is making this noise and is faulty.

I was planning to call NAD tech support tomorrow to report the odd behaviors anyway, but a non working unit has amplified (pun intended) my urgency to do so. However, after seeing the above posts, I'm not looking forward to it. Hopefully they will be able to tell me an easy fix or send a replacement.

As far as the other issues I would agree with Hear Here that the remote is about as useful as snow tires in the Sahara. It will turn on the unit and change the volume, but every other button on it is useless. It seems more designed for a generic a/v amp than the M33 specifically. BluOS itself is a bit of a mess, though this may be less of an issue the more I use it. One specific annoyance is the fact that unless you are in the BluOS app or Tidal Connect, you can't control the volume with your phone volume controls. In a way, this makes sense that the amp doesn't steal the volume control from the phone while on, but if you are looking at emails or browsing the web and want to change the volume you have to return to one of those apps to be able to do so. It would have been nice to have a smaller, less club like remote for this, but #firstworldproblems.

As far as subwoofers, I use 2 in stereo and set the crossover at 60 hz. I would assume that my bookshelf speakers aren't receiving 60hz and lower signals, but Hear Here has me questioning that with his post. In my experience so far, controlling the subs on and off through the bluos app has been good, and the sound blend between the speaker and sub is excellent.

I upgraded Dirac and ran through the calibration through my iphone. It's fairly straightforward, but my results were not to my liking. I want to run it again, but I need to figure out a better way to position the mic. In all, it measures around 9 different locations for single seat listening, and positioning the mic without a stand is a bit frustrating. I'm attributing that to my less than stellar result, as it made the soundfield more center focused with my Klipsch RP-600m's, but squashed and flattened their more lively tendencies, to the point that I turned it off almost immediately. Again, I haven't had time to play with the Dirac live results yet, but that's not even an option now anyway.

I will keep y'all up to date with my journey.

Hello Dsyst (and Kal)

Some of your problems are ones that I've also been suffering. Sometimes, start up results in a black LED screen, or the unit shuts down after an hour or so, or is lost to the app, or the LED screen locks up. Bob Horan at NAD has been very helpful and arranged for Malik to hack into my M33 online (he needs permission and the serial number) and his diagnosis is:

Bob Moran (NAD Electronics) Dec 14, 2020, 7:25 PM EST Hi Peter, Thank you for working with Malek this past Thursday, December 10th, and for granting him access to your M33. Following is Malek's assessment of your M33: After investigation and further discussion with the engineering team, I can confirm that this M33 is facing a data corruption which randomly makes BluOS crash or not boot. I have an NMB board here that I received this week with a similar issue. I can confirm that replacing the NMB fixes the random crash and boot issue, and we suggest replacing the NMB board to fix the issue. After replacement, this M33 needs to be rebooted multiple times with LAN/BluOS in Standby in the OFF state, to make sure that the problem does not persist. Additionally, we should leave the unit running overnight to make sure that the issue does not reappear and BluOS does not crash. I am currently investigating the root cause of this issue to make sure that it won't ever happen again.

I have no idea what an NMB board is but I've contacted the UK distributor - still waiting for their reply.

Regarding other matters - the remote control is a great bit of kit but the M33 uses it in a bizarre and inconsistant way. However these operations are available:

On and Off - bespoke buttons
Toggling Inputs - use the Up and Down navigation buttons (should be the CH/Source rocker)
Pause and Play - either the central Enter button (wrong use) or the bespoke Play and Pause buttons near the bottom of the remote
Next and Previous track - either the Left and Right buttons (wrong use) or the bespoke < and > buttons
Volume - obvious

That's just about all you can get the IR remote to do. With the M32 and M12, the same remote gives you access to the entire Settings menu allowing changes in Balance, Tone, etc without having to grovel on the floor in front of your rack and proding the screen!

Incidentally you should use Settings to engage the LAN/BluOS in Standby option - it's in Disengage as default (wrongly in my view) - see P12, item 13 in Manual. This allows the app to "see" the M33 when still in standby, allowing it to be turned on remotely from the app.

No, the Sub settings don't affect the output to your main speakers. Easy to verify - disconnect your subs, play a bass-heavy piece and change Sub Setting to On and Off - no difference. However with the M32 and M12, the main output can be attenuated to protect you main speakers from lowest frequencies. You can even select your Sub cut off and your Main cut off at overlapping frequencies if you like - but the M33 only offers a Sub cut off.

Regarding Dirac, I had very poor result initially with the left channel being much too loud. Following Bob's advice, I updated both the NAD and Dirac software and did a full Factory Reboot (you lose all adjusted Settings plus Playlists) and results are now much improved. However (as with the 3 other DSPs I've used) the accuracy is improved but, as you've found, some of the life and excitement is lost, although to a lesser extent with Dirac. Like you I find the imaging is slightly less precise with Dirac engaged.

I switch beween my most recent (and best) Dirac Filter and No Filter and it's a toss up - some music better with Dirac and some is not so good. Luckily I have a less invasise form of DSP in my Avantgarde XD speakers, but this is much more complex and really requires an expert with a measuring kit. I'll only get this done when I've made my speaker mods and am 100% happy with their positioning. Meanwhile all these DSP systems are not well developed yet in my view. Dirac (for me) has been the best, but I've used RoomPerfect, Anthem and MARS with less satisfying results. Hopefully they'll get there some day, but the additional digital processing that engaging DSP filters requires seems to be slightly dulling the music.

I hope this helps. Good luck with getting your problems sorted.

Peter

 

[Dsyst]

I wanted to update my post from the other night. First of all, to my surprise, my unit "woke up" the next morning with my last hail mary attempt at turning it on and it's actually been less ornery than before. I still get ocasional random restarts and tonight I had no sound at all until I did a soft restart (just switched it off with the remote, then back on), but otherwise the problems I have been having are less frequent, although it's still annoying be be having them at all. The only thing I tried the night before that may have changed that was to do a master reset from the back panel, then left it sit over night. I have no idea if that changed anything because when I initially did it, there was no difference.

As far as the remote is concerned, I was being a bit facetious when I was commenting about it's usefulness, but not by much. Yes you can turn it on and change the volume and you can change the inputs, though there is no way to control any music services short of pausing and skipping tracks. BluOS is absolutely necessary, and at least Tidal connect works too. Both require a phone, computer, or tablet. I just wish a remote with 60 odd plus buttons would be more useful as I would have much preferred a slim remote to do the basic tasks to which this club in only capable of. On a side-note, I do like having it nearby simply because it would come in serious handy during a home invasion event. It would literally be a dangerous weapon in the right hands!!!

I'm still waiting to hear from NAD, though the holidays are probably the delay, and I'm fine with that. I'm really not jazzed about sending a brand new unit in for service to replace a board, if that is what is going to happen. I would much prefer a swap with a new unit, as I don't trust electronics that have been refurbished or repaired, which always seem to have long term problems regardless of the fixes performed. Plus the fact that I don't imagine there would be a speedy turnaround. I'm on the fence about returning the unit to Crutchfield, though I have yet to talk to them about it either. At any rate I'll keep y'all updated!

 

[JayR]

Please keep us posted on the issues with M33. I have ordered one and am getting worried with these reliability reports.

I agree with the remote comments. Absolutely useless except for turn on/off and volume up/down. I couldn’t firgure out how to switch sources in the short time I used it. Don’t understand why all the other gazillion buttons were necessary as most didn’t seem to do anything.

 

[Hear Here]

Please keep us posted on the issues with M33. I have ordered one and am getting worried with these reliability reports.

I agree with the remote comments. Absolutely useless except for turn on/off and volume up/down. I couldn’t firgure out how to switch sources in the short time I used it. Don’t understand why all the other gazillion buttons were necessary as most didn’t seem to do anything.

I certainly will. Regarding the remote, it's not as bad as you think but far worse than it should be - and is when used with the M12 preamp or M32 integrated. In my earlier post (#15 in this thread) I mentioned the shortcomings of this remote but I'll mention here what it is good for when used with the M33:

On and Off - obvious buttons
Volume Adjust and Mute - obvious rocker and bespoke button
Next and Previous Track - left and right navigation buttons or the bespoke << and >> buttons - your choice
Pause and Play - toggle with central nav button marked ENTER or the bespoke > and II buttons - your choice
Toggle through Sources - up and down nav buttons - not the bespoke CH/Source rocker buttons!

That's sadly just about all you can use the supplied HTRM-2 remote for. The same remote does far more (including accessing and making changes to all Settings) with the M12 and M32, but I suspect NAD's intention is to phase out this great remote and supply a simpler and cheaper alternative in future.

Remember this remote can operate numerous NAD devices by selecting the device first. I control my M50.2 with it. It can also be programmed to do other things too if you can be bothered to delve into its fancy features.

I'm sure you won't be disappointed with your M33. Let us know when it arrives. Peter

 

[Thalassophile]

Hi all, new member, first post. I purchased an M33 three weeks ago and wanted to add my 2 cents after finding this thread.

Electronics companies must make compromises to meet certain price points, so there are no real “perfect” products IMHO. That said, I am generally very impressed with the M33 and I am keeping it. With future software and module updates it could come damn close to perfect. Unlike other posters I have not had any issues with the unit itself, so far so good. The detailed sound quality, available power, native DIRAC and handsome design shine. But as with all things in life, there are caveats. Below are some more granular observations that may help those on the fence, pro and con.

Pros:

Currently, the only thing your computer or smartphone cannot do is turn the unit on (more on that below). With the BluOS app downloaded onto your device of choice, it can do everything else for playback (or so far that seems true at least.. a poster above says there are things missing in the app that are on the touchscreen. I have not noticed yet). So I have been using my laptop to pick sources, apply specific Dirac settings created for different listening positions in my room, and of course the track selection. I do not use the remote or touch screen. To put that into perspective, even a feather light iPod Touch packed with music and the app can become a “super remote” that can stream music up to 16 bits on its own using Airplay while doing all the above. I have done that a few times while kicking back with no issues. Many of us have been waiting for a dedicated 2-channel system that is fully integrated with our other devises via our home network. I think NAD did a great job of making this a reality.

The low output impedance and impressive power of the headphone jack is able to drive a wide range of headphones, from efficient IEMS and up. It did a more than adequate job of driving some planar headphones I use [Impedance 50 Ohm / sensitivity 98 db ]. I am extremely pleased, that puppy usually requires a separate amp. While more power hungry planars (Audeze for ex.) will not be fully driven, this is a VERY nice plus for most headphone users. Having all this integration for speakers and cans is fantastic. AptX HD capability is included as well, which is great.

I do not have a turntable, but the ability to add one and have the signal digitized so your Dirac settings can be applied sounds really cool. Unfortunately I can not give any color on its actual implementation.

Dirac: for the most part is awesome. I had no issues with set up, it worked as advertised. I didn't have a microphone stand so I re-purposed one of those extender arms you use to hold a smartphone when on a web call. That worked really well. You definitely need to do your research on-line, especially about making your own target curves or downloading others that people have created and saving them. Personally I find Dirac's standard curve to be base lite and a bit weak in the mids, pushing the center image a tad too far back. It's a polite curve that seems more in tune with classical music, not Led Zeppelin. So I have made adjustments and am now very happy. As an experiment, I made one tightly focused set of measurements on a comfy chair in the far right corner of my room, and was amazed at how Dirac managed to shift the center image to accommodate its less than stellar position. I actually kept it as a preset it was so good.

Cons:

The lack of an USB-B input and any outputs whatsoever will be a deal breaker for some, and until NAD makes some definitive announcements about future modules, there is no certainty it will happen anytime soon. Those wanting to add a favored headphone amp (including tube driven or electrostats) to the integrated mix cannot do so, currently there are no Zone 2 / optical / coaxial out options. The one HDMI port will not be enough for those hoping to use the M33 as their main unit for a full on 2 channel media system, especially if they want to include a Blueray player and/or a streaming service kit in addition to a TV. Some find multi-channel exhausting or don't have the space for it, and do not want an AVR, the lack of dedicated two channel integrated receivers on the market has been notable and frustrating. With additional modules the M33 could be an excellent solution in the future. So close. Sidenote: It would be interesting to see if the Thunderbolt 3/4 standards and chip are used in future peripherals and NAD modules, that would solve so many problems and minimize the number of electrical sockets needed for a fully integrated media system since everything could be daisy-chained, including an external hard drive with high res files.

BluOS does not register until the unit is on, so you cannot use your smartphone to turn the M33 on/off. This is the one thing stopping the M33 from not needing a remote at all, which is a shame, because the On/Off switch on the M33 itself is oddly located and finicky, it feels like it will be the first thing to go and need to be repaired. Also, the remote sucks when it comes to function, and those wanting less clutter certainly don't want an extra hunk of metal sitting around just to turn the M33 on and off. I wish NAD put a more substantial power button (like the ones on their AVRs) on the lower left corner right below the NAD insignia, and that there was a way to use the BluOS app to power it up as well.

There is some wonkiness with BluOS itself, its doesn't always behave. Sometimes my iTunes library is available.... and sometimes its not because it is raining and its Tuesday. On a few occasions it started to play music on its own. I just use the source app natively, whether it's iTunes, Spotify or whatever and do not use BluOS for track selection. Another issue that may turn some away is the lack of Roon support. Apparently NAD is having a certification issue as of the date of this review.

 

[Rob1969]

@Thalassophile It is good to hear someone having a slightly more positive experience with their M33.

I am impressed by the patience of those who have had more fundamental operational issues with theirs. For a £4,000 amplifier I would not have been so philosophical if the one I owned for a short period behaved in the same way.

You mentioned about the phonostage - if you are thinking of connecting a turntable I would suggest you go for a MM cartridge with a decent output voltage. When I used my turntable with the M33 I had to take the volume up to around 70%/75% before I got any decent output.

 

[Hear Here]

BluOS does not register until the unit is on, so you cannot use your smartphone to turn the M33 on/off.

I'll try to help with some of your other problems but regarding your comment above - yes you can turn your M33 on from the app.

You have to first go into Settings > Player > LAN/BluOS in Standby and enable with the slider so it shows blue. See Item 13 on Page 12 of the Manual.

Then the M33 will be "seen" by your app when still in standby and you can turn it on by "playing" anything. Easy when you know how. I've suggested to the head Customer Services guy at NAD that Enabled should be the default setting and anyone who doesn't want the ability to turn it on via the app could Disable it - but why should anyone I wonder! Peter

 

[Hear Here]

Thalassophile​

Turning on - See my earlier post about switching the M33 on from standby using the app.

Future modules - Don’t expect too much from NAD’s claims of upgradability. Otherwise we’d still have M32s with an upgrade module! It’s really a facility to add features that you may want but isn’t included as standard. For example there’s an HDMI module that offers 3 inputs and one output. This may answer your HDMI question.

Outputs - You say there are no outputs whatsoever. Well there are no digital outputs but there are 2 pairs of analogue ones – one for full range to another amp and the other for a sub where the M33 can be asked to set the XO frequency. I must admit I hadn’t realised it had no digital outputs. The M12 preamp and M32 integrated both have coax and optical outputs, so I’m rather surprised this has been dropped in the M33. Perhaps there will be a module offering this – or perhaps not!

Dirac – Yes I find the standard correction offers a rather light bass, but looking at the measured curve I find my speakers have high levels at very low frequencies and a bit of a dip around 100 Hz, so ironing this out is probably good, despite its apparent loss of a little bass. As with all room correction systems I’ve used (Anthem, Dirac, MARS and RoomPerfect) there always seems to be a slight loss in musical life and excitement factor, so I generally try every other method of improving speaker performance without resorting to digital adjustment. I generally turn off the Dirac filter.

Roon – I’m told that there is a way to use Roon with the M33 but I’ve not investigated this. The M12, M32, M50.2, BluOS module and other NAD products are compliant so I could use Roon via my M50.2. If you can’t wait for the M33 to become compliant, you could simply add the BluOS module to your M33 – but check with NAD that this can be independently controlled by the app as the M33 will have 2 streamers to choose from. I think it will be OK as both will be connected independently to your router.

I hope your M33 continues to behave itself. I’m waiting for the local distributor to get the replacement board my unit needs, but I’m about to check my reports to NAD to see if I should ask for a complete replacement unit if the faults first came up within 30 days or so.

Peter

 

[Thalassophile]

Thalassophile​

Turning on - See my earlier post about switching the M33 on from standby using the app.

Future modules - Don’t expect too much from NAD’s claims of upgradability. Otherwise we’d still have M32s with an upgrade module! It’s really a facility to add features that you may want but isn’t included as standard. For example there’s an HDMI module that offers 3 inputs and one output. This may answer your HDMI question.

Outputs - You say there are no outputs whatsoever. Well there are no digital outputs but there are 2 pairs of analogue ones – one for full range to another amp and the other for a sub where the M33 can be asked to set the XO frequency. I must admit I hadn’t realised it had no digital outputs. The M12 preamp and M32 integrated both have coax and optical outputs, so I’m rather surprised this has been dropped in the M33. Perhaps there will be a module offering this – or perhaps not!

Dirac – Yes I find the standard correction offers a rather light bass, but looking at the measured curve I find my speakers have high levels at very low frequencies and a bit of a dip around 100 Hz, so ironing this out is probably good, despite its apparent loss of a little bass. As with all room correction systems I’ve used (Anthem, Dirac, MARS and RoomPerfect) there always seems to be a slight loss in musical life and excitement factor, so I generally try every other method of improving speaker performance without resorting to digital adjustment. I generally turn off the Dirac filter.

Roon – I’m told that there is a way to use Roon with the M33 but I’ve not investigated this. The M12, M32, M50.2, BluOS module and other NAD products are compliant so I could use Roon via my M50.2. If you can’t wait for the M33 to become compliant, you could simply add the BluOS module to your M33 – but check with NAD that this can be independently controlled by the app as the M33 will have 2 streamers to choose from. I think it will be OK as both will be connected independently to your router.

I hope your M33 continues to behave itself. I’m waiting for the local distributor to get the replacement board my unit needs, but I’m about to check my reports to NAD to see if I should ask for a complete replacement unit if the faults first came up within 30 days or so.

Peter

I'll try to help with some of your other problems but regarding your comment above - yes you can turn your M33 on from the app.

You have to first go into Settings > Player > LAN/BluOS in Standby and enable with the slider so it shows blue. See Item 13 on Page 12 of the Manual.

Then the M33 will be "seen" by your app when still in standby and you can turn it on by "playing" anything. Easy when you know how. I've suggested to the head Customer Services guy at NAD that Enabled should be the default setting and anyone who doesn't want the ability to turn it on via the app could Disable it - but why should anyone I wonder! Peter

Thank you Peter! 1000+ likes, this just made my day kid. Thinking about it, I can understand why it is switched off as a default. If you have multiple users, each with the BluOS app on a device that is part of a mesh network in a house, the possibility of the M33 being turned on accidentally from another room increases.

You are correct about the pre outs and subwoofer connections, I was using the term "output" people generically refer to when adding on other playback devices to a receiver. I understand why it is not standard due to all the streaming capabilities that are now available. But I was surprised that an additional module was not already available at purchase since, as you noted, the M32 has them.

Agreed that correction software is not a replacement for the right room, bass treatments and good placement. But when you live in an apartment with smaller rooms and WAF does not allow bass traps, they are a godsend, and Dirac is the best I have used so far.

Sorry to hear about your issues, that would frustrate me beyond words. COVID has certainly has had a negative impact on the supply chain for electronic and repairs. I hope it is resolved soon. Glad you have your M32 to keep you company till then.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Roon – I’m told that there is a way to use Roon with the M33 but I’ve not investigated this

I used both Roon and JRMC with the M33 as I prefer both to BluOS.

 

[Hear Here]

I used both Roon and JRMC with the M33 as I prefer both to BluOS.

But others with with M33 has seen a notice saying "not available on this device". Is there a secret to unblocking it? I've not tried it on my M32 as I'm not subscribed and currently don't have a Core. Peter

 

[Michael Davitt]

This little One sounds like a lovely additional to your family. Wishing everyone the best in the New Year!

It's got to be better than 2020... . .. ... ... .... . . ...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

But others with with M33 has seen a notice saying "not available on this device". Is there a secret to unblocking it? I've not tried it on my M32 as I'm not subscribed and currently don't have a Core. Peter

From my earlier post in another dimension:
"The time I had the M33 was prior to 9/21. It was on that date that Roon cut off working with non-certified devices although those registered in use were supposed to have continued support. New ones will not be recognized. See: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/uncertified-roon-ready-devices-announcement/120298

When I learned of this change, I asked NAD about support for the M33 and the response they sent is as follows:
"As Roon explain themselves, any device that has been used prior to Sep 21st, even in an uncertified way, will continue to work. The NAD M33 is with Roon for final certification approval and both companies are working together to have this completed as soon as possible.”

I did note, in the review, that the M33 was not yet certified but that it worked. That is true and, I believe, true for all M33s put into Roon use prior to 9/21. However, any newly purchased M33, although identical in all ways to the one I had, will be rejected by Roon if the user attempts to register it with Roon after 9/21 and, of course, before Roon and NAD work out the certification."

 

[thedudeabides]

I've always respected NAD for their performance / price ratio and had a few of their products in the past. Based on what I'm reading above, the "glitches" are inexcusable for a product that costs $5K US. If I owned the unit, I would request a full refund and look elsewhere. Needless to say, my opinion of NAD has changed dramitically and I will no longer recommend any of their products to anyone. Thanks for posting the horror stories.

Why didn't any of these issues show up in the product reviews? Disturbing indeed.

 

[Hear Here]

I've always respected NAD for their performance / price ratio and had a few of their products in the past. Based on what I'm reading above, the "glitches" are inexcusable for a product that costs $5K US. If I owned the unit, I would request a full refund and look elsewhere. Needless to say, my opinion of NAD has changed dramitically and I will no longer recommend any of their products to anyone. Thanks for posting the horror stories.

Why didn't any of these issues show up in the product reviews? Disturbing indeed.

Perhaps you could tell us who own M33s and have commented about them, which "inexcusable" issues would lead you to condemn the company that builds this excellent and fantastic value amplifier. It has minor faults, but I challenge you to suggest a device that offeres anything like the versatilty of the M33 and offers anything like its sound quality for even double its price. I suspect you've never used one - I seriously suggest you do so! Thanks.

 

[thedudeabides]

Way too complicated for me and I don't need a unit like that. In fact, I'm done buying any new gear unless something breaks. I find your post interesting. My observations were based on your and other user comments. Doesn't sound like you have bought a finished product that functions as advertised. Glad you like it, flaws and all. Best.