Dear Marc,
Sorry but you would not have convinced me of anything unless you were willing to swap the fuses back and forth a couple of times.
Audiophile Fuses
- Thread starter MylesBAstor
- Start date
Dear Marc,
Sorry but you would not have convinced me of anything unless you were willing to swap the fuses back and forth a couple of times.
+1. The differences between various fuses are quite obvious if you are willing to listen and experiment.
ok, theory perhaps but if you believe your ears over scientific fact then your ears lie !
This hints at the kind of behavior we experience, although like adyc said current is not the em wave, it's the movement of electrons/charges. In any case the electrons move very slowly while the result of the movement, an em wave, moves at some large fraction of the speed of light in most systems and is the music signal we hear. I do think that the movement of electrons is very important and not totally understood, and this accounts for the differences in sound between different conductors. We can see that maybe this relationship between the tiny movement of electrons and the near speed-of-light em wave response makes for a very sensitive system and is why every little thing matters in a stereo system.
Now, going back to the water analogy and electrolytic caps the energy stored in the device has the same kind of reaction and sensitivity, but it is stored in the cap's electric field which is not at all like a water storage tank as far as the relationship between what goes in to what comes out, it is much more sensitive. This matches what we see as a result of using the cap, a particular and very definable attenuation in PS ripple/noise, but there is still the very direct relationship between in/out. This is why the analogy doesn't work in this case and why fuses matter, the effect they have goes right through the power supply and into the music we hear, just at a lower level as a result of the PS filter stages. With the system being so sensitive the results of fuse are still audible even though reduced by the PS filters.
These concepts are hard to describe which is why analogies like water flow are used, physical phenomenon are at their ultimate level all the same and can be described in general terms using all the same mathematics, from beam-bending to heat transfer, it's all the same stuff at it's most basic levels, but particulars make it different... it's like trying to discuss philosophy while mixing relative and ultimate concepts, they often seemingly contradict one another like a paradox but are ultimately the same. In the day to day world these concepts can't be mixed when you get specific as it doesn't make sense, and the same is true for equating different physical phenomenon. It works up to a point then it breaks down and doesn't work any more.
I am read'in, but I ain't see'in!
How does one fuse versus another fuse add, change or reduce "distortions in the DC" which powers the analog signal stages?
(You and DaveC can feel free to speak technically. I have (had -- now stale) a basic understanding of elementary electronics (from FCC General Class amateur radio license exam).
As I said earlier on, a fuse can restrict instantaneous current delivery during high-current demands, by its shear thin-wire nature. Related to that, again due to their high gauge (thinner wire), is heat build-up and dissipation, especially in amplifiers, which consequently restricts current flow even further. There are all kinds of situations loosely described as "distortions" and these are just a couple of them.
BTW, electrons don't really "flow" as you said elsewhere; they do move with A/C current, but at extremely slow speeds; most energy is transmitted as an electromagnetic wave.
This current flow restriction and heat build-up is what had me totally bypass all of my fuses, and to heck with them. It's a shame that very few manufacturers use electromagnetic circuit breakers instead of fuses, but it is what it is.
As far as I could see no one in this forum, me included, is able to debate the science of audiophile fuses. So let us stay with sound ...
From Ralph Morrison "Grounding and Shielding: Circuits and Interference", 6th Edition. And yes, the first edition was much easier to read than the sixth!
We must remember that audio equipment is not electrically perfect and that all designers must accept compromises in order to fulfill their sonic preferences.
Attachments
I'm not debating the science behind 'fuses', rather some of the absurd pricing that certain 'audiophools' are willing to pay !
Yes, but remember that absurd pricing to some, is pocket change to others. On another thread, Northstar posted that someone paid $17.5 M for a pocket watch!! Owned by the late Paul Newman and a Rolex...in stainless ( not even gold, LOL) BUT $17.5Million!!!
Now, IMHO, IF you are making $17.5M a day, then what's the big deal, LOL. See my point.....
BTW, I believe Jeff Bezos makes a paltry $2M an hour...
That's completely OT. Maybe you should start a thread on it and see how it goes...
LOL, here, I'm sure you'd be right 'on board' !
If a regular fuse reduces current flow and acts as a kind of electrical bottleneck, and this creates distortion, then I understand completely. But then why are people replacing fuses on low current devices like preamplifiers and DACs?
And if it is simply a matter of the fuse being too thin of a piece of wire, why do amplifier companies not come up with a better solution themselves if it is such an easy way to improve the sound of their products?
because they are looking for a better piece of thin wire, with better heat dissipation - but any fuse wire MUST heat up and melt when necessary. Just run your amps high, shut them down, then remove the fuse and notice how warm it is. People think they are achieving something by replacing fuses, but I would say at best any improvements are marginal.
Some do, as I mentioned, and they provide breakers (e.g. the Boulder if I recall correctly). But you are really asking the wrong person, and if I had to take a good guess, I would say they are cutting cost and/or want to get the UL certification.
Thanks Bob. Well worth reading.
Mark - Sablon - who has spoken highly of the $22 Padis fuses is well supported by the first review.
+1 to him
Mark - Sablon - who has spoken highly of the $22 Padis fuses is well supported by the first review.
+1 to him
Electrons in a metal never move slowly. They are moving in great speed in a random fashion just like gas particles. Current is a measure of NET flow of electric charges in a point. When current is zero, it does not mean that there is no electric charges flowing across a point. There are equally amount of charges from left to right and right to left. What you mean is the mean drift velocity is slow. It is high school physics that one can calculate this mean drift velocity given current, electron density of a metal as well as thickness of the wire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_velocity
New - PADIS Fuse (EUR 22)
"PADIS (Progressive Audio Distribution) is a German manufacturer that sells rhodium plated fuses for high end audio. It is rumoured that PADIS also produces fuses for another well-known audio company. PADIS fuses can be ordered online directly on ebay directly from the manufacturer.
These fuses punch well above their asking price. I found them to be well-balanced, and very detailed at the same time. Both ends of the frequency spectrum are very well-controlled with the high frequencies being subtly more prominent. They also have a very precise rendering of the soundstage, and placement of instruments.
Outstanding value!"
_____
New - Schurter Gold Plated Ceramic Body Fuse (below US$ 2.00)
"Schurter actually lists their SMD-SPT fuse line as an audio product ! Thankfully, it comes with a non-audiophile price tag. Depending on how hard you look, you should be able to find it for less than US$ 2.00
In my humble opinion, the SMD-SPT handily outperforms the Bussman Ceramic Fuse for negligible price difference.
There is good amount of detail, and nothing seems unduly emphasized. Soundstaging is a bit distant.
If your system is perfectly dialed in, this could be the icing on the cake.
This fuse is an absolute no-brainer."
Thank you Barry!
Fwiw I first started using Padis several years ago and found that they gave a great bang for the buck, especially on tube equipment which counterbalances their leaner presentation. Since then, the market has moved on and the SR Black gives a big uptick over the Padis, being altogether quieter and more dynamic, so I would be inclined to recommend the Padis as an entry point purchase into upgraded fuses rather than an end game solution. I have yet to try the SR Blue or, for that matter, the latest Ultimate Beeswax.
Similar threads
