Bakoon Amp-41R and 51R integrated amps using SATRI circuit

[spiritofmusic]

It's real ale all the way here in Norfolk. Graham, I know someone who uses the old felt tip marker pen trick AND shaves off the periphery of his cds. He's not streaming in this lifetime.

wil raises a fascinating point, highlighting the maybe more "grounded" LTA versus quicksilver Bakoon. For me, my Nats are hugely earthy and textured, but a tad coloured and opaque. How much tonal density would I start to miss going to the more ethereal Bakoon?

 

[the sound of Tao]

I’ve tried the 11 and 12 Bakoons and guessing the 13R carries that Bakoon liquid fast Jet Satri signature along with it but also improves on it (which would make it a very good beast). I was just thinking a LTA mz3 in front of the 13R might be a great balance here though. Single ended SS is like but not the same as SET and Bakoon brings a real translucence but the LTA pre would bring a bit more flesh along with the flashes of realness... the Bakoon solo (while mighty flow and coherence) might bring more of that ether to the mix for sure. Admirable quality but for me leads me to a bit more of a sonic appreciation... but I’d think the middle place on density and fleetness with a pairing of the two might lean also towards easy access to the music. Haven’t tried the 13R so just pure speculation but given previous experiences with both would certainly make an audition of the pairing worth trying. I’ve just bought another amp but I did toy with the idea of a 13R but sitting here now I’m happy I went with another LM. Going to then go with different Nos valve mix on this one.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Graham, heard that earlier Bakoon on the Cessaro Liszts. Other than one major flaw (room/basshorn nodes, not the amp), it remains in my top 3 of totally adrenalising audio experiences. Indeed, in the intervening 6 years, no other audio demo has come close (other than the best ever experience that will never be replicated, or come close to, whatever I hear).

 

[the sound of Tao]

Graham, heard that earlier Bakoon on the Cessaro Liszts. Other than one major flaw (room/basshorn nodes, not the amp), it remains in my top 3 of totally adrenalising audio experiences. Indeed, in the intervening 6 years, no other audio demo has come close (other than the best ever experience that will never be replicated, or come close to, whatever I hear).

I get the adrenal thing... it’s certainly not at all amusical and the antipodes also leans in this liquid ether direction... but I found after a few weeks living with the bakoon I could see its virtue but the appreciation was for me a shade more (in balance) on the quality of the sonics, (a complete ymmv ofcourse so obviously can’t be drawn out of the context of the rest of the system).

I’m a touch attention deficit so adrenalising isn’t helpful long term for me. I love the sun and swim in the ocean, I love a mix of the warmth, the liquid and the light. For each there is a separate more perfect mix. The Bakoon could easily be the perfect solution for many.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Graham, adrenalising is maybe too literal a term. I probably mean more a vivaciousness I very rarely if ever have heard from SS.

Not fatigueing or leading edge at all. For me to have heard this despite overwhelming room/deep bass issues pays the greatest credit to the Bakoon.

 

[analogsa]

For me to have heard this despite overwhelming room/deep bass issues pays the greatest credit to the Bakoon.

Those bass issues may, to a degree, have been influenced by the amp. By virtue of their topology the Bakoon amps are no damping factor champions. Not even sure such a parameter is quoted within the specs. This will probably make little difference with bass horns, but the Liszts have a sealed box driver crossed over at 80Hz.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, the next time I heard the Liszts in the same room w same tt and dac, the sub bass was tamed. However all the magic was also tamed. Now Mola Mola Class D, Illusonic ADA to tt and a roomful of acoustic treatments.

 

[analogsa]

I can well believe this. How did the owner feel about the improvements?

 

[spiritofmusic]

I hate to say this, but the owner's opinion is not useful here. He thought dry and uninvolving Class D plus ADA on his tt plus a room full of acoustic panels was a success. Maybe on deep subs output. But nothing else. Indeed we got into a big argument on this.

 

[wil]

I’ve tried the 11 and 12 Bakoons and guessing the 13R carries that Bakoon liquid fast Jet Satri signature along with it but also improves on it (which would make it a very good beast). I was just thinking a LTA mz3 in front of the 13R might be a great balance here though. Single ended SS is like but not the same as SET and Bakoon brings a real translucence but the LTA pre would bring a bit more flesh along with the flashes of realness... the Bakoon solo (while mighty flow and coherence) might bring more of that ether to the mix for sure. Admirable quality but for me leads me to a bit more of a sonic appreciation... but I’d think the middle place on density and fleetness with a pairing of the two might lean also towards easy access to the music. Haven’t tried the 13R so just pure speculation but given previous experiences with both would certainly make an audition of the pairing worth trying. I’ve just bought another amp but I did toy with the idea of a 13R but sitting here now I’m happy I went with another LM. Going to then go with different Nos valve mix on this one.

Running the MZ3 as a pre to the Bakoon has occurred to me. It could be a nice balance. I've demoed the MZ3 as a 1 watt stand alone amp, and I liked it a lot-- actually better than I liked the Ultralinear.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Running the MZ3 as a pre to the Bakoon has occurred to me. It could be a nice balance. I've demoed the MZ3 as a 1 watt stand alone amp, and I liked it a lot-- actually better than I liked the Ultralinear.

That’s why I thought it would be worth considering. I’ve used the Microzotl as a pre to a SS headphone amp as well. In particular I’d imagine the marriage of qualities with Bakoon may be marvellous.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Microzotl

In some ways similar to that Bakoon, isn't it?

 

[wil]

In some ways similar to that Bakoon, isn't it?

I did demo the LTA MZ3 in my system last year as an integrated amp and liked it. I recall it's character being slightly warm, delicate, laid back and transparent. When I just recently demoed the LTA Ultralinear I was expecting more of the same, but found the UL to be less transparent and more gritty than I remembered the MZ3. Now, this could be, that by comparing it to the Bakoon, it just seemed less transparent.

So, the Bakoon and UL are very different. I'm going to try out the MZ3 as a pre amp to the Bakoon and see how that goes. If it doesn't bring something more to the Bakoon, I'll be very happy with the Bakoon on it's own.

 

[the sound of Tao]

In some ways similar to that Bakoon, isn't it?

I find them similarly good but not characteristically the same. The spirit of the Bakoon from my memory was fluid and fast, articulate and quite clean... haven’t heard the 13R but if that has the same house signature but is the best example of that then unsure where that then takes it ie more of the same and better would be very impressive.

The Microzotl is alive, more fire than fluid and quite spirited and uplifting, there are moments with these of very lively realness. Fast also like Bakoon, transparent and leads you very much to forget the mechanism and point you towards the life and the spirit of the music. Perhaps for me the Microzotl was a bit more visceral and the Bakoons a shade more etheric. The zotl a Shiraz, the Bakoon more a Pinot Noir. Just what I best recall and a tough distinction to make over time but theres enough compatibility for me to think they might blend very well together.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

I did demo the LTA MZ3 in my system last year as an integrated amp and liked it. I recall it's character being slightly warm, delicate, laid back and transparent. When I just recently demoed the LTA Ultralinear I was expecting more of the same, but found the UL to be less transparent and more gritty than I remembered the MZ3. Now, this could be, that by comparing it to the Bakoon, it just seemed less transparent.

Might be the case. Years ago one of our customers left us his Bakoon HPA-21 for a while and it sounded amazing with some headphones (HD800), liquid so to speak, fabulously smooth, very detailed and with a spot on tonal balance.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

The spirit of the Bakoon from my memory was fluid and fast, articulate and quite clean.

Yes, that's how I remembered the HPA-21. Top articulation with no grain or sharp edges.

 

[Hear Here]

I did demo the LTA MZ3 in my system last year as an integrated amp and liked it. I recall it's character being slightly warm, delicate, laid back and transparent. When I just recently demoed the LTA Ultralinear I was expecting more of the same, but found the UL to be less transparent and more gritty than I remembered the MZ3. Now, this could be, that by comparing it to the Bakoon, it just seemed less transparent.

So, the Bakoon and UL are very different. I'm going to try out the MZ3 as a pre amp to the Bakoon and see how that goes. If it doesn't bring something more to the Bakoon, I'll be very happy with the Bakoon on it's own.

Hi Wil - Just a thought - have you tried Bakoon's DAC-21 with your 13r? I ask because the 13r has their own 3.68 ohm Satri circuit designed specially for connecting their DAC-21 to their amps and I've not yet found any review where this connection is tested.

It's a shame the 13r has no XLR input or Sub out. The DAC is battery powered with 12 hours between charges - a feature I like

I've found there is a UK distributor and I'm inclined to ask them to loan me both the 13r and the DAC-21.

 

[wil]

Hi Wil - Just a thought - have you tried Bakoon's DAC-21 with your 13r? I ask because the 13r has their own 3.68 ohm Satri circuit designed specially for connecting their DAC-21 to their amps and I've not yet found any review where this connection is tested.

It's a shame the 13r has no XLR input or Sub out. The DAC is battery powered with 12 hours between charges - a feature I like

I've found there is a UK distributor and I'm inclined to ask them to loan me both the 13r and the DAC-21.

The DAC-21 is interesting as a mate for the Bakoon amps. I asked the US distributor if he thought I should try it, but he thought it wouldn't be as good as my Lampi Pacific. He did say he thought it was comparable to the PS Audio DirectStream Dac. He also said that Bakoon was hoping to develop a higher end dac sometime in the future.

 

[wil]

I find them similarly good but not characteristically the same. The spirit of the Bakoon from my memory was fluid and fast, articulate and quite clean... haven’t heard the 13R but if that has the same house signature but is the best example of that then unsure where that then takes it ie more of the same and better would be very impressive.

The Microzotl is alive, more fire than fluid and quite spirited and uplifting, there are moments with these of very lively realness. Fast also like Bakoon, transparent and leads you very much to forget the mechanism and point you towards the life and the spirit of the music. Perhaps for me the Microzotl was a bit more visceral and the Bakoons a shade more etheric. The zotl a Shiraz, the Bakoon more a Pinot Noir. Just what I best recall and a tough distinction to make over time but theres enough compatibility for me to think they might blend very well together.

Sound of Tao's experience above is similar to mine.

For the last two weeks I've been trying the LTA MZ3 as a pre amp before the Bakoon. I'ts remarkable how the MZ imparts it's sonic character. It almost seems to overwhelms the character of Bakoon.

The addition of the MZ is a mixed bag.

It gives some extra dynamics and a more dramatic soundstage -- visceral life. The Bakoon by itself might sound a little more confined, introverted and homogeneous. However, the MZ adds some edge and texture that can be a little abrasive. I can guess I'm hearing more dynamics but with an unwelcome companion along for the ride-- distortion. I can imagine this character could end up being more fatiguing
in the long run.

The Bakoon, without the MZ, is more smooth, with a more understated quality. It is definitely less distorted. The music is riding along on a clean slipstream. The downside: just not as visceral-- or maybe more accurately-- not as obviously visceral. But all in all, it might be a more lovable, if less exciting, musical companion.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Sound of Tao's experience above is similar to mine.

For the last two weeks I've been trying the LTA MZ3 as a pre amp before the Bakoon. I'ts remarkable how the MZ imparts it's sonic character. It almost seems to overwhelms the character of Bakoon.

The addition of the MZ is a mixed bag.

It gives some extra dynamics and a more dramatic soundstage -- visceral life. The Bakoon by itself might sound a little more confined, introverted and homogeneous. However, the MZ adds some edge and texture that can be a little abrasive. I can guess I'm hearing more dynamics but with an unwelcome companion along for the ride-- distortion. I can imagine this character could end up being more fatiguing
in the long run.

The Bakoon, without the MZ, is more smooth, with a more understated quality. It is definitely less distorted. The music is riding along on a clean slipstream. The downside: just not as visceral-- or maybe more accurately-- not as obviously visceral. But all in all, it might be a more lovable, if less exciting, musical companion.

Thanks Wil,
It’s great to get your feedback on the match because it has been a combination as a potential for here and I have been keen to maybe try the 13r myself eventually. Your setup is clearly lovely and revealing. With regards to portraying timbre and sounding natural (if I can go there) are they similar in this?

That said the Microzotl with line Magnetic SET is an experience I’ve absolutely fallen for (or fallen into) and I can see this may ultimately be about synergies between amp and pre (and also about all the ancillaries as well) but like you I’m also feeding horns that are sensitive beasts and thankfully am enjoying zero fatigue so might be MZ + SET = good match point.

Glad you have got resolution in this. I could just as easily see a Bakoon as a lovely way forwards.