Best bang for the buck used speakers under $50k ?

[DaveC]

Depending on what you want...

-IMO, YG and Verity are the most cohesive and "perfect" speaker but you must have the newest models. Possibly worth it if you value what they offer...

-TAD R1s are in your price range and I'd take them over pretty much anything other then a new YG or Verity speaker, from what I've heard.

Wilson, Magico and likely others including YG and Verity already mentioned have made some very significant improvements recently and you should be careful buying used as the new ones may be quite a bit better. I'd take a much smaller new speaker from these brands over much larger previous models for this reason.

 

[NorthStar]

Is there a thread on these yet?

Video in link:
You need a PhD to understand these speakers, but just ears to be floored by them
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/hands-on-with-bang-and-olufsen-beolab-90-video-review/


Bang & Olufsen BeoLab 90 loudspeaker
https://www.stereophile.com/content/bang-olufsen-beolab-90-loudspeaker

• https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/b-o-beolab-90.18641/

• https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/stereophile-january-2017-issue.22040/

 

[bonzo75]

Depending on what you want...

-IMO, YG and Verity are the most cohesive and "perfect" speaker but you must have the newest models. Possibly worth it if you value what they offer...

-TAD R1s are in your price range and I'd take them over pretty much anything other then a new YG or Verity speaker, from what I've heard.

Wilson, Magico and likely others including YG and Verity already mentioned have made some very significant improvements recently and you should be careful buying used as the new ones may be quite a bit better. I'd take a much smaller new speaker from these brands over much larger previous models for this reason.

Verity zesto was the best value system at Munich amongst the ones I heard. Verity was also with Engstrom.

 

[PeterA]

I prefered the S5 M1 to the Q3 as it sounded more laid back, warmer and had deeper, more textured bass. The S5 Mk2 is better again across the board. The Q3 sounded more transparent and mayyybe had a better tweeter (than the Mk1), but sounded a bit thin and too neutral for my tastes. The S5 Mk2 has a better tweeter than the Q3.

Bondi, I agree that the S and Q are fairly different sounding as you found. I do like the S5 Mk2 much more than the Mk1. I have heard the Q3 and both S5s in four or five systems, but never in the same system at the same session. The Mk2 and Q3 would be an interesting direct comparison in the same system. I will say that I own the Q3 and did not consider the S5 mk2 based on my auditions, cost, and aesthetics. I think they are both excellent, but they appeal to different tastes.

Smodtactical, If I were both able and willing to spend $50K, I would certainly consider the M2 or a used M3 along with the S5 Mk2. I suspect they all sound slightly different from each other and certainly different from the others on your list.

Buying speakers is a very personal choice based on many factors. I encourage you to listen to as many of the speakers on your list as possible with your own music in well set up systems. Take your time making a careful and deliberate choice. Good luck and enjoy the process.

 

[thomask]

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9d4gc-pbn-audio-master-reference-full-range

If you enjoy playing dynamic and loud, you can consider above.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Anyway, last year I came across a secondhand pair of XLFs. Ended up getting my money back on the S1’s through this trade. I enjoyed every minute with the S1’s. One thing to be mindful with secondhand, is pick manufacturers who have a good history of backup service and spare parts in case something goes wrong. The diffraction pads on the Alexandria S1’s had perished by 2018, so as part of the trade I agreed to cover their replacement. Not a problem as Wilson Audio provides all the spare parts for their retired products.

In terms of room size and big speakers, my room is 9m x 4m x 2.4m. However, I did install DIY acoustic treatments to a Rives Audio design back in 2010. The room is therefore able to accommodate larger speakers more easily.

Nice to know about one more XLF owner in WBF. Curiously your room is very similar to mine. What kind of treatment did Rives Audio avise you to carry on it?
BTW, what cables are you using on the system?

 

[PeterA]

Wilson, Magico and likely others including YG and Verity already mentioned have made some very significant improvements recently and you should be careful buying used as the new ones may be quite a bit better. I'd take a much smaller new speaker from these brands over much larger previous models for this reason.

Dave, would you rather have a Magico S1, A1, A3 or S3 mk2 than a pair of Q3s? They are all smaller, some much smaller, and newer than the Q3. Are you saying that you think they all sound better than the older and larger Q3 model?

Or how about the A1 versus the Mini 2 or old M5 versus any of them?

 

[DaveC]

Dave, would you rather have a Magico S1, A1, A3 or S3 mk2 than a pair of Q3s? They are all smaller, some much smaller, and newer than the Q3. Are you saying that you think they all sound better than the older and larger Q3 model?

Or how about the A1 versus the Mini 2 or old M5 versus any of them?

I have not been able to keep up with hearing the latest from Magico. I have definitely heard good sound from Magico and would consider them but I'd have to go audition the latest models.

 

[bazelio]

This is my shortlist for audition based on your original list.

TAD Reference 1
Lumenwhite Kyara
Canton 1k (lowest on my list)

PS I like someone's idea of used MM3 a lot, and Dave's idea of moving up the TAD line while staying within budget.

 

[PeterA]

I have not been able to keep up with hearing the latest from Magico. I have definitely heard good sound from Magico and would consider them but I'd have to go audition the latest models.

Thanks Dave. I just wanted to ask you about it so that the OP does not assume this is always the case regarding some brands that he is considering.

When you named Magico specifically, I had assumed you had heard at least some examples to support your comment. From what I understand, there are certain older models that were built to a very high standard, almost without regard to price, and still sound better than some of their newer and smaller models that are built more to a price point and often for a different market segment.

I think there are many examples of former flagship or top of the line products that still outperform newer, smaller products from the same company. Some members might site SME tonearms for example.

 

[DaveC]

Thanks Dave. I just wanted to ask you about it so that the OP does not assume this is always the case regarding some brands that he is considering.

When you named Magico specifically, I had assumed you had heard at least some examples to support your comment. From what I understand, there are certain older models that were built to a very high standard, almost without regard to price, and still sound better than some of their newer and smaller models that are built more to a price point and often for a different market segment.

I think there are many examples of former flagship or top of the line products that still outperform newer, smaller products from the same company. Some members might site SME tonearms for example.

With Magico constantly updating their speakers it makes it difficult to keep up with.

Just in general I think there has been a lot of improvements in speakers recently from almost every major brand, so I just don't think you can assume an older version is as good as the newest version. IMO you have to be careful buying used and thinking you have got a great value when a newer model may be quite a bit better in some ways. I'm not claiming this is always true in all examples, I have not heard every speaker made from every major manufacturer as I'd guess is the case with most folks. I'm just putting it out there that in some cases the $50k might be better off spent on a new speaker rather than a used speaker, depending on what you value. For example, I never liked older Wilson or YG speakers but I think the newest models are excellent.

 

[PeterA]

With Magico constantly updating their speakers it makes it difficult to keep up with.

Just in general I think there has been a lot of improvements in speakers recently from almost every major brand, so I just don't think you can assume an older version is as good as the newest version. IMO you have to be careful buying used and thinking you have got a great value when a newer model may be quite a bit better in some ways. I'm not claiming this is always true in all examples, I have not heard every speaker made from every major manufacturer as I'd guess is the case with most folks. I'm just putting it out there that in some cases the $50k might be better off spent on a new speaker rather than a used speaker, depending on what you value. For example, I never liked older Wilson or YG speakers but I think the newest models are excellent.

I think everyone is suggesting that the OP actually hears the speakers before he decides to buy them. Some of the used models mentioned are actually still current models, so one presumes the technology is still fairly new. I think those would certainly be viable options for him.

Yes, Magico does make a lot of speakers. The last time I was in the market for a new speaker, I asked myself if I could find a better speaker than the ones I had for a cost of $20K or less. I listened to the Magico speakers in that price range, as well as some others. The one I liked most was the just discontinued Q3. It cost less, and sounded better, to me, than other alternatives. The upgrade after selling my old speakers was just $7,000.

So, I agree with your general advice about improving technology and caution about buying used, older technology speakers. However, there are some great exceptions to that general advice. I only asked you about Magico speakers because you named them specifically in your post, and I assumed you had just made the very comparisons I mentioned because you alluded to them. And I had just gone through that very exercise. I was curious to learn if your experience was different than mine.

 

[NorthStar]

Here's my way of calculating a pair of high-end hi-fi loudspeakers:
From the speakers cost ($50,000) add another (roughly) ...
- 55-75% for room acoustics tuning (treatments & all).
- 25-45% for preamplification and amplification.
- 20% for speaker wires.
- 20% for the electronical circuitry (breakers and clean power).
- 20% for the source(s) ... analog/digital.

- 20-sky is the limit% for music software (of course). Not included in the total system.

Estimated grand total for a high pedigree hi-fi stereo sound system (based on $50,000/pair speakers): Between $125,000 and $150,000

I know I know, there are million roads that lead to Rome. I just took one imaginative one.
There's no speed limit; it's like the Autobahn.

For fifty grand speakers I want clean bass (+/- 0.5dB) @ 16Hz.

 

[Bodhi]

Bondi, I agree that the S and Q are fairly different sounding as you found. I do like the S5 Mk2 much more than the Mk1. I have heard the Q3 and both S5s in four or five systems, but never in the same system at the same session. The Mk2 and Q3 would be an interesting direct comparison in the same system. I will say that I own the Q3 and did not consider the S5 mk2 based on my auditions, cost, and aesthetics. I think they are both excellent, but they appeal to different tastes.

Smodtactical, If I were both able and willing to spend $50K, I would certainly consider the M2 or a used M3 along with the S5 Mk2. I suspect they all sound slightly different from each other and certainly different from the others on your list.

Buying speakers is a very personal choice based on many factors. I encourage you to listen to as many of the speakers on your list as possible with your own music in well set up systems. Take your time making a careful and deliberate choice. Good luck and enjoy the process.

My first thought when I read your post is, have you travelled to Australia before? Bondi Beach is a popular beach in Sydney, NSW .

I should clarify that I still like the Q3 quite a lot. I was maybe a bit unkind in my earlier comment re: the Q3's tweeter. Aural memory can be hazy, but I recall it was better than the S5 Mk1's BE dome. The Q3's do classical music very well because of the cabinet's low self-noise + their transparency & top end. I just preferred the S5 Mk1's overall presentation and tonal balance more based on my musical tastes as you elluded to. Agree on your other comments.

 

[Aussienut]

Nice to know about one more XLF owner in WBF. Curiously your room is very similar to mine. What kind of treatment did Rives Audio avise you to carry on it?
BTW, what cables are you using on the system?

Thanks for your interest, I’ll try to keep this short as this tread is not about my system but hopefully shows how larger speakers can work well in limited sized rooms. I built the treatments to a Rives Audio design and installed on weekends over 12+ months of hard work. Corner bass traps and a combination of diffusion and absorption positioned on all walls/windows and ceiling plus floor mats. Rear wall bookcase acts as a diffuser. Measurements showed an reasonably flat RT60 of 0.28 across the frequency range. Certainly has helped to bring the best I can manage to extract from the Alexandria XLF and previously Alexandria Series 1. Very privileged to have such a room (and a very very very understanding wife as this room was our formal lounge/dinning room).
Equipment (Audirvana/Macmini/Uptone PS/SSD; EMM Labs DAC2X; Krell 202/Mono 400e; Alexandria XLFs; Torus AVR16, PS Audio P10; Finite Elemente racks; Siltech XLR, Nordost CAST, Harmonic Technology (needs replacing), Furutech).
MicroStrip (or anyone else) Happy to answer any questions on the treatments or anything else.

 

[microstrip]

Thanks for your interest, I’ll try to keep this short as this tread is not about my system but hopefully shows how larger speakers can work well in limited sized rooms. I built the treatments to a Rives Audio design and installed on weekends over 12+ months of hard work. Corner bass traps and a combination of diffusion and absorption positioned on all walls/windows and ceiling plus floor mats. Rear wall bookcase acts as a diffuser. Measurements showed an reasonably flat RT60 of 0.28 across the frequency range. Certainly has helped to bring the best I can manage to extract from the Alexandria XLF and previously Alexandria Series 1. Very privileged to have such a room (and a very very very understanding wife as this room was our formal lounge/dinning room).
Equipment (Audirvana/Macmini/Uptone PS/SSD; EMM Labs DAC2X; Krell 202/Mono 400e; Alexandria XLFs; Torus AVR16, PS Audio P10; Finite Elemente racks; Siltech XLR, Nordost CAST, Harmonic Technology (needs replacing), Furutech).
MicroStrip (or anyone else) Happy to answer any questions on the treatments or anything else.

Great work, particularly the ceiling - I considered a similar "Rives type " structure, but as my room ceiling joists are transversal it should be much harder to built it. Do you have any absorption on the upper side of the tilted plates?

Did you play with the back/front firing port?

 

[Gregadd]

Yes. Indeed it would be a project. I had the privilege of hearing these at Overture Audio in Delaware. For the first and maybe the only time I felt I was listening to music and not a stereo.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9c1id-martin-logan-statement-e2x-perfect-condition-full-range
Martin Logan Statement e2
Spectral electronics

P.S. It works well in relatively small room. The room will however have to be large enough to accommodate its' rather imposing presence.

 

[Aussienut]

Great work, particularly the ceiling - I considered a similar "Rives type " structure, but as my room ceiling joists are transversal it should be much harder to built it. Do you have any absorption on the upper side of the tilted plates?

Did you play with the back/front firing port?

The angled boards don’t require absorption, however there are layers of material between the joist. Insulation/sheetrock/green glue/sheetrock/insulation. See design detail sheet. The Rives design can be used with joist running across the room. I found these photos during my research. The boards are still angled between the joist but are now follow a different pattern.

Regardless of what acoustic treatments you use (DIY or commercial), I would suggest taking a holistic approach and getting professional help. I believe taking a holistic approach will get you closer to your desired end result much faster. With acoustic treatments you are trying to tame all the room induced issues to an acceptable level and balance the results. Rives is no longer in business but I believe Chris Huston who worked with Rives offers a similar service through Huston Design Group. But there are also many other acoustic engineers, as used by others on this site, who provide these services. Are you considering installing treatments or do you already have some?

I tried front and rear firing of the XLF port. As my room is not overly wide the speakers back onto the front corner bass traps. Front firing therefore produced better results. However, this may have been different if the speakers didn’t back on to the bass traps, as would be the case if I had an extra 1m or 1.5m of room width. Can’t have everything. Which orientation did you land on?

BTW, the last two photo are one of my favourite examples of integrating acoustic treatments into a living space. This Rives design inspired me to take the plunge. Unfortunately I didn’t have the ceiling height to do what they did or the need for the pillars/ arch with integrated treatment.

 

[sbnx]

$50K buys a lot of speaker on the used market. Just need to find the one that fits your musical taste and room size. I am sure the Rockports would be a winner or the Revels. I notice you did not include Wilson or Vivid audio on your list. Is there something about the sound of these two speakers that you don't like? Also for consideration could be the KEF blade (New for under $30K). All just depends on your taste.

I have heard the Rosso Fiorentino's several times in Skip's rooms and they always sound great. Not a well enough known brand IMHO.

 

[steve59]

I think $50k should get you any used speaker ever made, just depends on how used. So get the pair you've been dreaming about.