Best Volume Control

[flm09]

I like step attenuators and I use them on my system(mono/mono). I've tried the Chinese hand solder ones from eBay and Gold Point matching 1/8 watt Vishay resistor ones, and the Gold Point was a lot better sounding. Then I tried the Gold Point V47, 47 step discrete matching chip resistor attenuators, and I like that even better. On my system, the chip resistor attenuators sounded cleaner, more open, with lot more detail than the Vishay resistor.

Ok thanks for sharing that info!

 

[remdeck]

I have used the blue Alps pot for years and wanted remote control.
LDR and stepped transformers are the best you can get, but how do you remote them?
So I found the Muses 72320 volume control from Academy Audio. The Muses is used by Nelson Pass in his top pre amp and he is very happy with it.
When I build my pre amp, the sound was so much better than the alps, I couldn't believe it. So big thumbs up for that.
It's a lot more expensive than the Alps but cheaper than the LDR or transformer option. But you need good audio caps to get rid of DC (input /output) as the (analog working) chip doesn't like DC

Regards Remco

 

[flm09]

I have used the blue Alps pot for years and wanted remote control.
LDR and stepped transformers are the best you can get, but how do you remote them?
So I found the Muses 72320 volume control from Academy Audio. The Muses is used by Nelson Pass in his top pre amp and he is very happy with it.
When I build my pre amp, the sound was so much better than the alps, I couldn't believe it. So big thumbs up for that.
It's a lot more expensive than the Alps but cheaper than the LDR or transformer option. But you need good audio caps to get rid of DC (input /output) as the (analog working) chip doesn't like DC

Regards Remco

Ok thanks Remco! So you believe there is a difference! Dod you do a matched blind test?

 

[Barry]

Yeah true but you think in a blind test people can tell the difference between Shallco and Alps Blue velvet since tube preamps have lot of distortions anyways?

Absolutely if you use decent resistors in the Shallco. I replaced an Alps with a Shallco in a Classe Audio DR-6 MKII preamp a few years back. Unfortunately, the preamp was voiced for the Alps and the resistors I used were Holcos. Better transparency, but overall not a good match musically.

Oh, I wouldn't go with anything less than 32 steps if you don't want to have big changes in volume. This requires a bit of planning and measurement.

You might also consider PEC attenuators ( not stepped) which are more neutral than Alps IMHO. Pass uses them in their XVR-1 active crossover.

 

[flm09]

Ok so when you replace Alps it was sideways move.

 

[Barry]

Not that simple. You should regard any modification you do to equipment as an experiment. More expensive parts don't always make for a better sound. Good designers spend many hours picking parts that give them the sound they want even if they're working at a price point.

 

[flm09]

Not that simple. You should regard any modification you do to equipment as an experiment. More expensive parts don't always make for a better sound. Good designers spend many hours picking parts that give them the sound they want even if they're working at a price point.

The main reason I post here is the experts can let me know if o go with a Prima Luna evo 300 preamp will i notice lack of transparency compare to pre amps that use ladder resistors.

 

[DaveC]

The main reason I post here is the experts can let me know if o go with a Prima Luna evo 300 preamp will i notice lack of transparency compare to pre amps that use ladder resistors.

I'd look at components as a sum of their parts. There are many important factors like circuit design, transformer and capacitor quality, power supply, etc. that are also considerations.

 

[flm09]

I'd look at components as a sum of their parts. There are many important factors like circuit design, transformer and capacitor quality, power supply, etc. that are also considerations.

Yes true! After doing some searching I believe Spectral Audio has the best volume control which they use in their DMC 30 preamps. Its called a super fader.

 

[remdeck]

Ok thanks Remco! So you believe there is a difference! Dod you do a matched blind test?

No I didn't do double blind test as this is very difficult in private situation as you then need at least 2 parts in parallel use.
I have used my pre-amp based on the Calvin Buffer with Pre-Reg and big linear PSU, with the blue Alps on daily basis for almost 2 years and after the conversion to Muses, the difference was so incredibly big, there was no mistake that this is much better. Much more open sound getting a lot more 3d, bass was incredibly much more defined and powerfull, mids and highs lost grain and greyness. Dynamics are greatly improved.
As I'm a professional Audio Engineer, my ears are trained for long extended listening sessions and used to analyze sound.
Which doesn't mean that I sometimes fooled myself, when turning knobs knowing to hear things change, than notice I was turning the wrong channel

 

[denimhunter]

Oh I didn't know that! So sticking with Alps blue velvet is good enough?

I had a Shindo Masseto preamp, it uses Toyo cosmos volume pots, and I upgrade to Elma 48 stepped attenuator and the improvement is significant. The problem volume potentiometer is that it’s logarithmic, and it’s not channel balance until a certain volume. It becomes tricky when there is too much gain from the amp. The preamp saturates before one can get channel balance And that’s audible. The 48 step attenuators are linear so one can get balance right fr the beginning. There is so much more control and much easier to locate the sweet spot(s) of the amps.
The attentuator was x10 the price of the pot. In this case I thought it as worth it.

 

[flm09]

No I didn't do double blind test as this is very difficult in private situation as you then need at least 2 parts in parallel use.
I have used my pre-amp based on the Calvin Buffer with Pre-Reg and big linear PSU, with the blue Alps on daily basis for almost 2 years and after the conversion to Muses, the difference was so incredibly big, there was no mistake that this is much better. Much more open sound getting a lot more 3d, bass was incredibly much more defined and powerfull, mids and highs lost grain and greyness. Dynamics are greatly improved.
As I'm a professional Audio Engineer, my ears are trained for long extended listening sessions and used to analyze sound.
Which doesn't mean that I sometimes fooled myself, when turning knobs knowing to hear things change, than notice I was turning the wrong channel

I believe you!

 

[flm09]

I had a Shindo Masseto preamp, it uses Toyo cosmos volume pots, and I upgrade to Elma 48 stepped attenuator and the improvement is significant. The problem volume potentiometer is that it’s logarithmic, and it’s not channel balance until a certain volume. It becomes tricky when there is too much gain from the amp. The preamp saturates before one can get channel balance And that’s audible. The 48 step attenuators are linear so one can get balance right fr the beginning. There is so much more control and much easier to locate the sweet spot(s) of the amps.
The attentuator was x10 the price of the pot. In this case I thought it as worth it.

True I see what you mean. But a highly regarded preamp Zanden uses a modified Alps pot!

 

[kernelbob]

I use an LDR in my 6SN7/12SN7 buffer preamp. They have tradeoffs like anything, the power supply is audible, source switching still requires switching contacts. I plan on switching it out with silver autoformers, but remote control may be an issue. Bent audio had an autoformer pre with remote, the TAP-X I think, not sure it's possible to get the remote parts still. It's tough to give up remote VC!

I use a Tortuga LDRxB balanced controller. There are no switches in the signal path, including switching between inputs. Instead it uses LDRs at each input The type of LDR used there is different from the LDRs used for volume control. I opted to include absolute phase switching on my LDRxB. That is also done without any switching contacts.

For absolute phase/polarity reversal, the + and - phases of inputs 1 and 2 are also routed to inputs 5 and 6 respectively but with the + and - phase leads reversed. So pressing the absolute phase reversal control (the left arrow when in the default volume control menu) actually switches between input 1 to input 5 (or input 2 to input 6). Identification of the correct absolute phase of the recording is easily heard. When reversed as small box labelled "Phase" is shown on the volume display panel.

Regarding the power supply, you can purchase a battery power supply from Tortuga Audio. The improvement is clearly audible. Alternatively, you can easily build your own. I use an Optima marine battery and a very small trickle charger to keep it topped off. You just need to make sure that the polarity of your home grown connectors to the LDRxB power input socket is correct. The trickle charger doesn't inject noise into the system.

Best,
Robert

 

[analogsa]

The 48 step attenuators are linear so one can get balance right fr the beginning.

Quite unlikely a linear attenuator will provide steps of equal loudness. Otoh, in case of excessive gain, which is probably your case it will have more usable low volume positions. It may have worked well for you but is hardly a universal solution.

 

[flm09]

Ok

I had a Shindo Masseto preamp, it uses Toyo cosmos volume pots, and I upgrade to Elma 48 stepped attenuator and the improvement is significant. The problem volume potentiometer is that it’s logarithmic, and it’s not channel balance until a certain volume. It becomes tricky when there is too much gain from the amp. The preamp saturates before one can get channel balance And that’s audible. The 48 step attenuators are linear so one can get balance right fr the beginning. There is so much more control and much easier to locate the sweet spot(s) of the amps.
The attentuator was x10 the price of the pot. In this case I thought it as worth it.

Ok thanks! I am surprised you modified the Shindo! I was going to mention that Shindo on their entry level stuff uses Alps.

 

[denimhunter]

Ok

Ok thanks! I am surprised you modified the Shindo! I was going to mention that Shindo on their entry level stuff uses Alps.

I think most of the shindo pre uses Toyo Cosmos pots. Shindo is still built to a price point. The Shindo magic is in the circuit design, as long as that is unaltered I believe there’s possible improvement to be had.

 

[flm09]

I think most of the shindo pre uses Toyo Cosmos pots. Shindo is still built to a price point. The Shindo magic is in the circuit design, as long as that is unaltered I believe there’s possible improvement to be had.

Ok good to know!

 

[flm09]

I have had one generic stepped attenuator break so wondering if using Alps Blue is ok and I get remote. Besides Lamm uses Noble pots and nobody complains!

 

[flm09]

Is Alps Black beauty better.