Caelin joins World's Best Forum

[microstrip]

That audio site is only accessible if you register and log in. ...It is not a public site; they don't allow anything from the outside world to come in (links to other forums, or dealers, or useful info), and they don't let everyone free to view their operating style.

For many people this is not a positive place to inform the audio community without restriction and bias. It is more a business audio site than an informative one.

I had to say this because some people aren't aware of these facts.
Beneath the surface lies a different type of operative enterprise. ...Driven by the bias forces of financial profits.

Bob,

IMHO you are giving an extreme and wrong view on the AudioAficionado. Any one can register there and is free to see all the contents.
They have their rules, that are quite acceptable - the only time I broke them by mistake (copyright matters) I received a warning, solved the issue and at it was smooth since then. Their archives have invaluable information on many brands of equipment and setups. Manufacturers have posted answers to my doubts there in a very friendly way. Surely there are company biases, but they are openly acknowledged.

Again IMHO AA is a very different space from WBF - these sites complement themselves, and should not be viewed as competitors, but different windows into our hobby.

 

[Mobiusman]

Thank you Caelin,

Not only are your products wonderful and real, with Shunyata, the company shines from the head. BTW, your demeanor so impressed me when I met you at CES that it played an important role in my decision to shift my entire system to your Xitron products. I look forward to getting the digital power cords, HDMI and USB cables

 

[CGabriel]

Thank you Caelin,

Not only are your products wonderful and real, with Shunyata, the company shines from the head. BTW, your demeanor so impressed me when I met you at CES that it played an important role in my decision to shift my entire system to your Xitron products. I look forward to getting the digital power cords, HDMI and USB cables

Thank you Russ - I really appreciate that.

 

[NorthStar]

I graduated from a Naval electronic engineering school during the 1970's specializing in data acquisition and low level signal detection. I served 4 years in a military division of NSA and was stationed in Berlin Germany. Other than that, there is not much I can say about the experience. On leaving the military, I worked in the private sector with a variety of companies dealing with networking and computer storage design.
While attending school I worked as an electrician - my grandfather, six uncles and my sister are all electricians. So, that is the short of it.

Wow, I knew that there was something 'electrical' in your background. :b

 

[NorthStar]

Bob,

IMHO you are giving an extreme and wrong view on the AudioAficionado. Any one can register there and is free to see all the contents.
They have their rules, that are quite acceptable - the only time I broke them by mistake (copyright matters) I received a warning, solved the issue and at it was smooth since then. Their archives have invaluable information on many brands of equipment and setups. Manufacturers have posted answers to my doubts there in a very friendly way. Surely there are company biases, but they are openly acknowledged.

Again IMHO AA is a very different space from WBF - these sites complement themselves, and should not be viewed as competitors, but different windows into our hobby.

Francisco,

I will say this once and once only: I know many good people (I included) who cannot read anything at AudioAficionado (registered or not, or logged in or not).
It is that type of website!
Yes there is some good stuff over there, but not everyone has free access to it. And it is a very restricted site, as I mentioned before, because you cannot give good information from other forum's links!
I can tell you so much more, but here is not the place and time.

I am very happy for you that you are a free person over there; but there are others (several very good people) who are refused access!
And that is very bad policy in my book. It is discrimination, hatred, vengeance, and it is everything America stands against of, for in its right of freedom and constitution.
I don't care about anything other than free access of information for everyone.

Consider yourself privileged to be slave of a very wrong philosophic system created by people working mainly for their own personal interest.


* Please forgive me Caelin for the short interlude.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Thank you Russ - I really appreciate that.

Great to have you aboard!

 

[ack]

Bob,

IMHO you are giving an extreme and wrong view on the AudioAficionado. Any one can register there and is free to see all the contents.
They have their rules, that are quite acceptable - the only time I broke them by mistake (copyright matters) I received a warning, solved the issue and at it was smooth since then. Their archives have invaluable information on many brands of equipment and setups. Manufacturers have posted answers to my doubts there in a very friendly way. Surely there are company biases, but they are openly acknowledged.

Again IMHO AA is a very different space from WBF - these sites complement themselves, and should not be viewed as competitors, but different windows into our hobby.

we are veering off topic, but their policies mean they are not searcheable by engines - huge mistake.

 

[Steve Williams]

agree

let's stay on topic.

 

[microstrip]

People should know that recently Caelin Gabriel from Shunyata Research had a patent on the use of ferroelectric materials to reduce noise in power lines. The pdf is easily accessible:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US20120175163.pdf

 

[Frank750]

Caelin or Grant,

I have 2 Typhons connected in parallel with mono amps on dedicated circuits. I just got the Anaconda umbilicals to go with the TYPHONS. Do the umbilicals require an extended burn similar to the full size Anacondas? Thank you

 

[Steve Williams]

you mean because they are half the size they only require half the time to burn in???

 

[edorr]

Caelin or Grant,

I have 2 Typhons connected in parallel with mono amps on dedicated circuits. I just got the Anaconda umbilicals to go with the TYPHONS. Do the umbilicals require an extended burn similar to the full size Anacondas? Thank you

I asked the same question via email today. They need about a week burn in.

 

[marty]

Shunyata Research had a patent on the use of ferroelectric materials to reduce noise in power lines. The pdf is easily accessible:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US20120175163.pdf

Micro,
I think the patent you reported is an updated patent from Gabriel US. Pat. No. 6,545,213 which was the original patent in which he demonstrated the use of ferroelectric substances for the purpose of reducing high frequency noise that may be present on AC power trans mission lines, as in a power cable or within a power conditioner. Gabriel ’213 describes power wires contained within a non-conductive, flexible tube that is filed With a ferroelectric substance. It seems rather apparent that this patent is directly relevant to the Noise Isolating Chambers that are a major key to the performance of many of Shuyata's products.

However the patent that I really enjoyed reading was Gabriel US20120080212 which is directly relevant to the Zitron technology. In short, it describes "A method and apparatus for reducing dielectric polarization and dielectric relaxation Within a signal wire by partially neutralizing the electric charge differential Within the dielectric material between the signal conductor and the surrounding insulating dielectric material." The key to understanding how Caelin neutralizes dielectric polarization is depicted in figure 5, which is the heart of the Zitron circuit.



I would like to make a few comments on the patent if I may. While it is true that many readers may not understand all the electrical engineering that is described in the patent (and I certainly did not understand it to the depths that I would have liked), I would encourage enthusiasts to read the patent anyway. It is beautifully written and if you can believe this, reads like a novel in many ways. For example, it is interesting to me how he describes the difference between his approach and that of Bill Low of Audioquest who also applies a bias voltage to the dielectric of a cable without interferring with the signal. In Low's case, it is a static bias provided by battery to generate a DC voltage. Caelin's solution is to reduce or eliminate the charge and discharge of the dielectric altogether. As Caelin goes on to say, biasing a dielectric to a static level cannot prevent dielectric polarization of re-radiating as does the Zitron technology. Furthermore, Zitron technology tracks the signal and dynamically adjusts the electric level applied to the dielectric in such as way as to neutralize the dielectric polarizations while Low simply applies a fixed bias level.

As I scientist, I am favorably impressed when I read patents that are well-grounded in their scientific content with ample data to support the patent claims, as Caelin has done so nicely in the '212 patent. (Kudos to your attorneys as well, Caelin). So much of what purports to be genuine advancements in "high end" audio, are nothing more than marketing hype. It was therefore a genuine pleasure to read these patents to learn that there is indeed considerable scientific substance that underlies the "product differentiating" performance of many of Shunyata's products.

 

[CGabriel]

Micro,
I think the patent you reported is an updated patent from Gabriel US. Pat. No. 6,545,213 which was the original patent in which he demonstrated the use of ferroelectric substances for the purpose of reducing high frequency noise that may be present on AC power trans mission lines, as in a power cable or within a power conditioner. Gabriel ’213 describes power wires contained within a non-conductive, flexible tube that is filed With a ferroelectric substance. It seems rather apparent that this patent is directly relevant to the Noise Isolating Chambers that are a major key to the performance of many of Shuyata's products.

However the patent that I really enjoyed reading was Gabriel US20120080212 which is directly relevant to the Zitron technology. In short, it describes "A method and apparatus for reducing dielectric polarization and dielectric relaxation Within a signal wire by partially neutralizing the electric charge differential Within the dielectric material between the signal conductor and the surrounding insulating dielectric material." The key to understanding how Caelin neutralizes dielectric polarization is depicted in figure 5, which is the heart of the Zitron circuit.

View attachment 12516

I would like to make a few comments on the patent if I may. While it is true that many readers may not understand all the electrical engineering that is described in the patent (and I certainly did not understand it to the depths that I would have liked), I would encourage enthusiasts to read the patent anyway. It is beautifully written and if you can believe this, reads like a novel in many ways. For example, it is interesting to me how he describes the difference between his approach and that of Bill Low of Audioquest who also applies a bias voltage to the dielectric of a cable without interferring with the signal. In Low's case, it is a static bias provided by battery to generate a DC voltage. Caelin's solution is to reduce or eliminate the charge and discharge of the dielectric altogether. As Caelin goes on to say, biasing a dielectric to a static level cannot prevent dielectric polarization of re-radiating as does the Zitron technology. Furthermore, Zitron technology tracks the signal and dynamically adjusts the electric level applied to the dielectric in such as way as to neutralize the dielectric polarizations while Low simply applies a fixed bias level.

As I scientist, I am favorably impressed when I read patents that are well-grounded in their scientific content with ample data to support the patent claims, as Caelin has done so nicely in the '212 patent. (Kudos to your attorneys as well, Caelin). So much of what purports to be genuine advancements in "high end" audio, are nothing more than marketing hype. It was therefore a genuine pleasure to read these patents to learn that there is indeed considerable scientific substance that underlies the "product differentiating" performance of many of Shunyata's products.

Thank you Marty for the kind comments. It is especially meaningful in that you are also a scientist. BTW, I wrote the patent in its entirety except for the Claims which is best left to the patent attorneys as you probably know.

Regarding the circuit diagram, the components C1 and C2 represent the EFCC (electric field compensation circuit) which can be a very complex circuit or in its simplest form just a capacitive element. We do have models running where the EFCC is actually a complex active powered circuit that generates the compensation electric field. For the scientists and engineers in the crowd, you should read the patent before commenting about the circuit diagram. This circuit cannot function if the two signal paths are just independently run wires as in a twisted pair. The cable MUST be constructed as two coaxial type wires such that the magnetic field of the center conductor and the electric field of the outer conductor are electrically conjoined. Note to DIYs: if you make a cable without the proper wire construction you will not get the desired effects.

 

[Mobiusman]

Caelin,

One of my greatest pleasures since introducing your products into my system last February is how it has challenged my sense of physics and what matters on the audio front. As I have said repeatedly on this forum, there is no way I could go back to my system pre Shunyata Xitron because of the positive sonic differences your products have made.

However, I must admit that I am continuing to learn about physics from playing with your products, especially since this thread commenced. I have a Triton, which seems to have gotten short shrift in the face of Typhon talk on this thread, and my system is fully equipped with your Xitron power cords ranging from Anaconda to Venom and everything in between. I ordered some of the Alpha digital power cords yesterday from Sanjay at Ciamara in NYC, who I met because your company's recommendation and now value highly as both a dealer and emerging friend, plus I ordered one of your yet to be released USB cables and several HDMI cables.

I have a Spectral 260 amp which was connected to the Triton via Python Xitron, but tried connecting it directly to duplex via the Python. I was not ready for what happened. My sound stage became much more dimensional and discrete, my 260 plays louder before shutting down, and surprisingly, much less apparent negative influence by my 50" plasma which sits between and back 3 1/2 feet behind the plane of my Martin Logans and JL subwoofers. Another benefit was that my twin JL F113's which are plugged into the Triton, became much tighter, I am assuming because there is more current now that the Spectral is sucking current from another source. What I am wondering is if the same benefit would occur if I moved the Triton to the same duplex receptacle that the Spectral is plugged into as people are talking about when plugging amps into the same duplex as a Typhon? Any information you can shed on this phenomena would be appreciated by my physics challenged brain.

 

[CGabriel]

So is the Spectral now on a different circuit than the Triton/source-components or is plugged into the same circuit but a different outlet?

As you probably know now, we recommend that amps be connected direct to the wall in most cases. The additional current capacity that a second or third AC circuit provides cannot be overstated with a high-end system. Of course, the power from that circuit can be improved by inserting a HYDRA whether it be a Triton, Cyclops or Typhon.

To use a boating analogy: A single AC circuit is like driving the boat with a single 200hp Honda outboard engine. Having two dedicated lines is like adding a second 200hp outboard to the boat. It is very difficult to make up for that extra capacity even if you minimize the losses of a single circuit and reduce the noise on the line. Understand?

So, no I wouldn't move the Triton to the other circuit as you would be going back to a single outboard so to speak.

 

[Mobiusman]

Thank you Caelin. I love your logic, communication style and your ethics.

 

[edorr]

Thank you Caelin. I love your logic, communication style and your ethics.

Ethical business practices work. I keep asking these guys questions and I am getting answers that are not in their best commercial interest, but in my best interest as a customer, and as a result I keep thinking of ways to spend more money with shunyata. Keep it up!

 

[Mobiusman]

Caelin,

Sorry that I was not more clear with my question. The duplex that I have plugged the Spectral 260 into is different from the duplex that the Triton is plugged into via an Anaconda, but they are on the same circuit. I realize that this should not produce a sonic benefit unless the Triton was somehow choking the current flow, which from what i understand it does not. Yet the sonic change was dramatic with regard to the sound staging and articulation, although there is a slight shift in the sonic presentation that sounds a bit less smooth to me. Also, there is no doubt that the Spectral will now play louder before the protection circuit triggers, which I thought was occurring because of the low impedance point of .52 ohms at 20k which is below the trigger impedance. It is also noteworthy that the JL F 113's which are plugged into the Triton are definitely tighter without the Spectral plugged into the Triton.

So my question is do I plug the Triton into the other receptacle on the duplex that the Spectral is plugged into?

Sorry for being a bit slow on this front.

 

[CGabriel]

It could be that the outlet that you have plugged the Spectral into is closer electrically to the panel. So, the in-wall wiring would be shorter and you also eliminate a junction in the wiring. Have you replaced the AC outlet with a good quality outlet?