Chinese DAC shames a few heavy hitters

[Blizzard]

Conjecture, for sure. Even if it is a hybrid from Dustin does not mean a pure simple discrete would not be better. You have to listen to know anything. As long as the signal goes through an op amp....it is colored by it (in my experience). Of course, I am always open to learning something new. If a hybrid circuit could beat a single discrete stage I am all for it.

I heard IC opamps can't be beat above 100Hz. It's the low frequencies that cause the problems, so somehow this hybrid designs makes for the best of both worlds eliminating the heat caused by the low frequencies in the IC opamps.

 

[Ric Schultz]

When you have A/Bed his circuit with all the thousands of discrete only circuits in the world and have something concrete to share...then please do. The proof is in the listening! I am all ears. Please tell me something you know from direct experience.

 

[Blizzard]

When you have A/Bed his circuit with all the thousands of discrete only circuits in the world and have something concrete to share...then please do. The proof is in the listening! I am all ears. Please tell me something you know from direct experience.

Marty is the ears so far on this thread. You read what he had to say. He has some pretty killer speakers to listen to it on as well.

 

[esldude]

I would love to measure it. But it is cheap enough that if I see it at CES, I could try to buy one. If I fail, and you like to see it measured, I would be game.

You can order them on ebay.

 

[Ric Schultz]

What does Marty's speakers and listening have to do with A/Bing a circuit that you don't even know exists in the product versus 1000 other possible circuits? He is just stating how good the DAC is. I have no doubt about what he said. The opamps in the DAC are not even near the discrete stage. Please stick to facts you know to be true. Your quote at the bottom of your posts is about honesty. What do you honestly know? Certainly nothing about this output stage.

 

[Blizzard]

What does Marty's speakers and listening have to do with A/Bing a circuit that you don't even know exists in the product versus 1000 other possible circuits? He is just stating how good the DAC is. I have no doubt about what he said. The opamps in the DAC are not even near the discrete stage. Please stick to facts you know to be true. Your quote at the bottom of your posts is about honesty. What do you honestly know? Certainly nothing about this output stage.

If the opamps aren't for the output stage, what are they for? Are they before the DAC chips in the digital domain? If not they are part of the output stage.

 

[wisnon]

This guy isn't a fool. Between him and Martin Mallinson, they have over 100 patents for digital and analog design to their names. Now they own all of Wolfson's technology as well. He is the #1 digital audio engineer in the world today. He would have listened to it as well as made sure it measured awesome. He was telling me IC opamps can't be beat above 100Hz. It's the low frequencies that cause the problems, so somehow this hybrid designs makes for the best of both worlds eliminating the heat caused by the low frequencies in the IC opamps.

Maybe, but we speak of ANALOG output stage here, so not necessarily his forte.

 

[Blizzard]

Maybe, but we speak of ANALOG output stage here, so not necessarily his forte.

He designs digital to analog chips for a living. Half of his patents are for analog circuits. Do you really think he can't design an output stage? That's like kindergarten level compared to what he usually does. I'm really not sure why anyone should think that this output stage is anything short of SOTA. Combined with Hqplayer, I wouldn't doubt it if it could out do the Lampi GG certainly better clocks and measurements.

Anyways I have no concrete proof of who designed this output stage, but it looks like a real nice design to me.

 

[nc42acc]

I don't think anyone should dismiss the Chinese audio market. At the current selling price of under $800.00 you are not talking a huge financial investment.

 

[FrantzM]

I don't think anyone should dismiss the Chinese audio market. At the current selling price of under $800.00 you are not talking a huge financial investment.

There is however a resistance from many when it comes to Chinese products. I started a few weeks ago a thread on Chinese Amplifiers some of them I have heard and are extremely good price be damned.. The thread died very quickly. Often there will be the intonation of how Chinese are very lax (I am being nice) on Intellectual property. The great irony is that most countries including the USA have done the same when in their early Industrialization period... Boomerang Karmic Effect?

At that price I will likely take the plunge .. Only problem I have too many DACs laying around I need to purge the closet first

 

[nc42acc]

Frantz I know this problem too well myself.

I don't think the Gustard is a knockoff, it is an in house design from what I was told.

There is however a resistance from many when it comes to Chinese products. I started a few weeks ago a thread on Chinese Amplifiers some of them I have heard and are extremely good price be damned.. The thread died very quickly. Often there will be the intonation of how Chinese are very lax (I am being nice) on Intellectual property. The great irony is that most countries including the USA have done the same when in their early Industrialization period... Boomerang Karmic Effect?

At that price I will likely take the plunge .. Only problem I have too many DACs laying around I need to purge the closet first

 

[Blizzard]

Seems that most people around here buy products for status, rather than sound. Why do you think the turntable threads are so popular. So I wouldn't expect much interest in this. The only way people would take it seriously, is if you put the boards in a new case with a North Amercian or European name on the case, and sold it for 10x the price. Then you would have people raving about it

 

[bonzo75]

Seems that most people around here buy products for status, rather than sound. Why do you think the turntable threads are so popular. So I wouldn't expect much interest in this. The only way people would take it seriously, is if you put the boards in a new case with a North Amercian or European name on the case, and sold it for 10x the price. Then you would have people raving about it

Mods how long do you intend this to continue? Please let us know how to get such concessions, sometimes it's real fun relaxing by trolling

 

[nc42acc]

You could have left out the turntable part as my VPI prime sounds OUTSTANDING. You are correct on the pride of ownership many times trumps sound quality in this industry. Not me I just want it to sound good!

Seems that most people around here buy products for status, rather than sound. Why do you think the turntable threads are so popular. So I wouldn't expect much interest in this. The only way people would take it seriously, is if you put the boards in a new case with a North Amercian or European name on the case, and sold it for 10x the price. Then you would have people raving about it

 

[Blizzard]

Mods how long do you intend this to continue? Please let us know how to get such concessions, sometimes it's real fun relaxing by trolling

This is a digital thread, why are you here? You analog guys sure are touchy. We don't see this behaviour from the digital fans.

 

[Blizzard]

You could have left out the turntable part as my VPI prime sounds OUTSTANDING. You are correct on the pride of ownership many times trumps sound quality in this industry. Not me I just want it to sound good!

I never said turntables can't sound great, but I think there's a lot more to turntable ownership than just practicality, and sound.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Only problem I have too many DACs laying around I need to purge the closet first

Great New Year resolution ... You are a happy man to have only a closet, I have a filled garage to empty!

 

[Lee]

Have you guys heard the Chord FPGA DACs yet?

I'm finding better sound with that than most Sabre chip implementations.

 

[Blizzard]

Have you guys heard the Chord FPGA DACs yet?

I'm finding better sound with that than most Sabre chip implementations.

The problem with most Sabre chip designs are weak output stages. Not the case with this DAC. The Sabre brightness, some people talk about isn't even from the chip, it's from undersized ic opamp based output stages. The 9018 chip is a 8 channel DAC, and the output stage must sink a lot of current when the channels are paralleled. When built undersized, you run into an edgy sound. Proper engineering overcomes this.

 

[microstrip]

Seems that most people around here buy products for status, rather than sound. Why do you think the turntable threads are so popular. So I wouldn't expect much interest in this. The only way people would take it seriously, is if you put the boards in a new case with a North Amercian or European name on the case, and sold it for 10x the price. Then you would have people raving about it

Why don´t you focus on products and forget about the owners? As far as I know this is an audio forum, not a therapy group!