Coming Soon: High End Balanced Interconnect Shootout: Odin 2, Valhalla 2, AQ Dragon, Stealth Sakra V17LE, Ansuz D2 & more?

[RHMMMM]

Why am I posting this?
I have been a long time forum lurker and have gotten loads of helpful information over the years from reviews, threads, DM's and real-life interactions with people I've met in the audio hobby/industry. I've been wanting to give back a little and actually write a review or document one of my shootouts for a long time and I'm putting a stake in the ground today and committing to it. I have all of these interconnects here at once and over the next month or so will work to fill in all the content.

Why am I doing this shootout?

• I'm looking for... What's Best! My system is at a point where it's resolving enough and I love audio gear just as much as I love music. And heck, I'm not afraid to admit it...maybe I actually love the gear more! I totally love playing around with my system and trying to squeeze the last bit of performance out of it, pushing boundaries.
• Through my system, my non-audiophile friends were able to easily tell differences between the cables in this review and the differences were easy enough to discern for them to have clear preferences for one over another.
• I've been using Valhalla 2 XLR IC's between my DAC and Amp for years now and wanted to see what else was out there and if it was worth upgrading.
• This review will be of the interconnect placed between my DAC and my amp.
• These are all cables I either purchased or have on loan because I’m considering purchasing them. None of this was funded or subsidized by a manufacturer.

The content will follow this format:

About Me & My Audio Journey
Quick "about me" and my journey in HiFi.

My Sonic Preferences
In my opinion, relevant to any review and especially relevant with cables, my best shot at describing the sound I like to hear from my system.

System Description
Brief list of my associated gear, because this matters in the context of cables, too.

• Source: MSB Reference DAC w/Femto 77 clock, Ethernet Renderer
• Speakers: Focal Scala Utopia v2
• Speaker Cables: Nordost Odin 2 2.5M Spade/Spade
• Amp: Ayre VX-R / Twenty
• Power gear: Furutech wall outlet (with and without conditioners) Isotek evo3 Nova, Shunyata Everest, Nordost QBase MK3, Nordost Valhalla 2 PCs, Stealth PCs, Audioquest Dragon PCs

For each cable:

• Quick overview and description of each cable, noting any relevant history, physical geometry, specific technologies or details in construction
• My subjective thoughts and notes on how the cable sounds in my system
• Relative comparisons with other cables in the shootout
• Pros/Cons/Who I think this is cable is for

Summary/Conclusion/Cables I ended up keeping
Wrap up and the cables I bought.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you very much for starting this thread, Rob, and for sharing this journey with us! I appreciate the methodology you have outlined!

I am looking forward to your future installments!

 

[Sampajanna]

Wish the Shunyata Omega was in the mix, but I am thrilled to follow your journey nonetheless!

 

[RHMMMM]

Happy to include any cables folks want to send me. The Cable Co recommended Siltech Royal Double Crown and Synergistic SRX. I’d love to try some Siltech.

 

[Sampajanna]

Well, if you are really going all in, I would add Shunyata Omega, Inakustik flagship silver, Silitech and Crystal Cable flagship as well as Transparent

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Looking forward to your findings.

 

[RHMMMM]

Well, if you are really going all in, I would add Shunyata Omega, Inakustik flagship silver, Silitech and Crystal Cable flagship as well as Transparent

Slight update here. I’ve had to deal with both a wedding and funeral in the past couple weeks so my more in depth update to my original post will have to wait a bit longer.

I did do some more extensive listening with several different friends and one of them brought over his Echole speaker cables and power cables which made me realize I need to look into that brand, also. @Re-tread, I’m sure would love to know this! So, I’m working on getting a full loom of Echole to demo in the next week…

 

[lordcloud]

I have a pair of cables I could send if you're still able to include additional cables.

 

[Googaliser]

Following with interest!

 

[J007B]

Very interested to hear what you think about the Ansuz.

 

[Rays]

First shootout this year?

 

[Atmasphere]

Why am I doing this shootout?

• I'm looking for... What's Best! My system is at a point where it's resolving enough and I love audio gear just as much as I love music. And heck, I'm not afraid to admit it...maybe I actually love the gear more! I totally love playing around with my system and trying to squeeze the last bit of performance out of it, pushing boundaries.

Just for fun dept.: you might want to try a set of Mogami Neglex cables with Neutrik connectors as a control. I did something similar in a shoot out of balanced cables about 33 years ago.

Here's something to think about: If you hear differences between cables (and many of us have) is that a good thing? I think it isn't, because I think we all know that whoever made the 'best' cable in a shootout will have a better version next year, and if he doesn't, someone else will. We've been seeing that go on for decades now, ever since Robert Fulton showed off his first interconnect cable way back in the late 1970s. IOW, it might be a bit of a trick to find the 'best'.

 

[Googaliser]

Just for fun dept.: you might want to try a set of Mogami Neglex cables with Neutrik connectors as a control. I did something similar in a shoot out of balanced cables about 33 years ago.

Here's something to think about: If you hear differences between cables (and many of us have) is that a good thing? I think it isn't, because I think we all know that whoever made the 'best' cable in a shootout will have a better version next year, and if he doesn't, someone else will. We've been seeing that go on for decades now, ever since Robert Fulton showed off his first interconnect cable way back in the late 1970s. IOW, it might be a bit of a trick to find the 'best'.

Cables are such a polarising area - really like the way you phrased the above. I have always been a sceptic - but finally had a chance to test a high-end cable empirically. Many of those I respect and trust do indeed claim to be able to hear differences.

MSB Select II ---> Blue Jeans [Belden 1800F] XLR 1.5m ---> Sennheiser HE1 [$61.50 cables]
Vs.
MSB Select II ---> Nordost Valhalla II - XLR 1.5m ---> Sennheiser HE1 [c.$10,000 cables]

Let me start by saying that I purchased the Valhalla II's brand new with my own money and still have them in the system. I didn't pay the full retail price and benefitted from a nice discount from the dealer. The unboxing experience made an Apple product look cheap. They are really stunning to behold and I will likely keep them in the system from an aesthetics point of view. Call me shallow - but they are beautiful - and WAF has value in my household. They also represent only 2.5% of the system's value - so in that context I am not going to get too hung up on 'value'.

Now to the fun part - the sound.
As much as I wanted to hear a benefit - I can hear absolutely no difference between the Valhalla II's and the Belden 1800F XLRs - either out of the box - or after about a week in the system. Since they are staying in the system - I will report back after a month or two - but I already know the outcome. But I don't care - they are beautiful and since they don't degrade the sound they will stay. But my system is probably the most detailed and transparent headphone rig on the planet - and if there was a difference to be heard - even a tiny one - I am sure I would have heard it.

This of course is just one comparison (and opinion) - and I am sure other cables may indeed have a sonic impact - and maybe those with golden ears will hear a difference - but I wasn't able to. YMMV etc.

 

[Sampajanna]

I recently had a pair of Audioquest silver xlr’ s in the system for a month because I was waiting for my Shunyatas to arrive (the rest of system is Shunyata). When the new ones arrived, I assumed there would be a small difference. My buddy who is not into Hifi happened to be over when I switched and we were both completely shocked at how big a difference this one change made. It was not subtle at all.
I think a lot depends on system though.

I am surprised you didn‘t hear a change, though I have yet to hear the HE1. In general, I find the difference in cables even more noticeable with headphones, especially IEM. Maybe because IEM are sensitive. The first wow moment I had with a cable was with IEMs.

Anyway, if you don’t hear a difference you just saved yourself lots of money, which is always good. Joy is the only real measure!

Have you tried power cables?

 

[Googaliser]

I recently had a pair of Audioquest silver xlr’ s in the system for a month because I was waiting for my Shunyatas to arrive (the rest of system is Shunyata). When the new ones arrived, I assumed there would be a small difference. My buddy who is not into Hifi happened to be over when I switched and we were both completely shocked at how big a difference this one change made. It was not subtle at all.
I think a lot depends on system though.

I am surprised you didn‘t hear a change, though I have yet to hear the HE1. In general, I find the difference in cables even more noticeable with headphones, especially IEM. Maybe because IEM are sensitive. The first wow moment I had with a cable was with IEMs.

Anyway, if you don’t hear a difference you just saved yourself lots of money, which is always good. Joy is the only real measure!

Have you tried power cables?

The funny thing is I haven't actually saved any money - I am keeping the Valhalla's! So economics are not a bias here. I completely agree with you re. headphones or IEMs being the best critical listening method. Removing the room (and environment - humidity, air pressure, temperature etc.) from the equation does simplify things and allows better isolation of the variable.
I also love IEMs - my current poison are the Oriolus Traillii - by far the best sounding IEMs I have owned thus far. But the HE1s destroy them - simply no comparison.
I have tried power cables in the past and also conditioners. The later did seem to make a difference. I will try them on the new system in due course. Would I buy Valhalla II power cables ? Maybe - they look great. Am I expecting to hear a difference? Nope - but maybe they will surprise me when I get around to it. I am happy these high end cables exist - and they have more than one utility. If they look good in your system, pride of ownership is enhanced, and the paranoia of 'what if' is reduced - then there is definite benefit and value in that in my opinion.
My next upgrade however will be the MSB Digital Director. I am hearing reports from owners that this is sonically significant and I will continue to prioritise the source components over cables budget-wise.

PS: Apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread - but testing cables takes time so hopefully just keeping this thread ticking-over in the meantime!

 

[jtcfdog]

Atmasphere is correct in that if the two components are truly balanced internally the XLR cable doesn't make a difference if it's well made.I'm not a cable denier!Quite the opposite. Coax,usb, power,and speaker cables all have their flavors and I'm always trying new ones.

 

[adrianywu]

I think the shield makes a difference, the conducting material makes a difference, stranded vs. solid wire makes a difference, the dielectric makes a difference, the diameter of the conductors makes a difference and the geometry makes a difference. The dielectric, the geometry and the shield will affect the reactance of the cable, and the effects will be system dependent. Some people (highly experienced and qualified engineers/scientists) believe that the characteristic impedance of the cable is important, even at audio frequencies. Prof. Malcolm Hawksford believes that the skin effect plays a role even at audio frequencies and can result in group delay and hence phase distortion as conductor diameter increases. Oxidation on the surface of the strands of wire can alter the signal conduction between the strands as the wire ages. Therefore, the best solution is a thin solid wire. Comparing cables in a single system will only tell you what works best in that system. After many years of experimentation, I ended up with thin (30AWG) solid UPOCC silver wire insulated by extruded Teflon, braided without shield. This cable is very transparent, tonally neutral and broadband compared to the other commercial cables I have tried. There might be commercial cables out there that out perform my DIY cables, but their cost will be prohibitively expensive for me.

 

[Googaliser]

After many years of experimentation, I ended up with thin (30AWG) solid UPOCC silver wire insulated by extruded Teflon, braided without shield. This cable is very transparent, tonally neutral and broadband compared to the other commercial cables I have tried. There might be commercial cables out there that out perform my DIY cables, but their cost will be prohibitively expensive for me.

Hi Adrian - who makes the bulk cable you describe - I assume this is analogue only?

 

[adrianywu]

I use this wire to construct the cables: https://www.soniccraft.com/product_...blue-p-1880?osCsid=ol0nvjion77mkpttje09kmpg74

 

[Atmasphere]

I think the shield makes a difference, the conducting material makes a difference, stranded vs. solid wire makes a difference, the dielectric makes a difference, the diameter of the conductors makes a difference and the geometry makes a difference. The dielectric, the geometry and the shield will affect the reactance of the cable, and the effects will be system dependent. Some people (highly experienced and qualified engineers/scientists) believe that the characteristic impedance of the cable is important, even at audio frequencies. Prof. Malcolm Hawksford believes that the skin effect plays a role even at audio frequencies and can result in group delay and hence phase distortion as conductor diameter increases. Oxidation on the surface of the strands of wire can alter the signal conduction between the strands as the wire ages. Therefore, the best solution is a thin solid wire. Comparing cables in a single system will only tell you what works best in that system. After many years of experimentation, I ended up with thin (30AWG) solid UPOCC silver wire insulated by extruded Teflon, braided without shield. This cable is very transparent, tonally neutral and broadband compared to the other commercial cables I have tried. There might be commercial cables out there that out perform my DIY cables, but their cost will be prohibitively expensive for me.

Yes- they all make a difference, until you prevent the audio signal from using the shield as a circuit return path for the audio (as per AES48), and if you also employ low impedances, particularly in the source impedance. In the studio, whatever is driving the interconnect might see only 600 Ohms at the other end of the cable (which is why signal levels in the studio are often in 'dBm' rather than merely deciBels, because it takes a little bit of power to drive 600 Ohms or 1 or 2KOhms; therefore the source needs a gutsy drive). Under such circumstances, the cable differences literally vanish.

I've been accused of being a cable denier in the past because I hold this position (I'm anything but...); decades ago I did a demo where we compared 4 different cables, one of which as an old microphone cable in questionable condition (as a control) and the others were high end cables. We drove them with two different sources- a passive volume control (which must use ground) and a line stage that had a floating output (per AES48) that could also drive a low impedance. The differences between the cables were heard with ease using the former; the control cable by far the worst of them. With the latter the differences vanished; all the cables sounded better though, even the control. The cables were all 30 feet long.

I've done this and similar demos many times over the last 35 years and always had the same results.