I stopped offering DIY options about 5 years ago. None of my current phono stages was ever offered as DIY kit
Thomas
Current “Best Bet” SOTA Phono
- Thread starter Uwiik
- Start date
Thomas
Very interesting indeed, the gain is also world’s highest I think and it’s tube. This Phono caught my attention months ago and it’s modestly priced compared to a few other mentioned here. Better than EMT??
Silvercore MC Pro, it’s actually very very good sounding, if it not because of the SUT I will never ever play my vinyl….
This actually broke my heart. My first high end encounter was when I was still 13 years old in my friend’s house. His dad has a huge room with all Jadis gears that shook my head and heart. Can’t forget that moment. Yes it is a disgrace now…
I heard it and actually still coordinating with my dealer for home audition, the best bet really because I can home audition it…. But it’s bloody expensive and will only delay my next upgrade, plus it’s XLR only…… Care to elaborate about your other previous phono before the HSE?
Very interesting indeed. Pay everything upfront or down payment and full payment before delivery? How would you describe your phono? Do you think your phono can handle 10m RCA run to my pre amp?
On the other note, how regular are you releasing your Elrog 242? If I ever get the Kondo Kagura, I don’t think there is any hope to acquire quad matched RCA/GE/WE/Amperex, naturally your Elrog 242 come to mind.
thanks And please keep the information coming
Hi!
As the lead time currently is quite long I ask for a moderate down payment at order placement to secure the build slot. Say 10-20%. Then an amount to fill 50% when I order parts specifically for the unit (chassis material or any custom parts). And the remainder when the unit is ready to ship.
I have different phonos and would consider my entry level phono to easily compete with any of the others mentioned here (sorry for the rant). I back this up by a satisfaction guarantee. If you are not happy with the phono for any reason you can return it within 14 days of receipt for a refund of the payment, except shipping cost.
It has very low output impedance and can drive long cable lengths. I don't see an issue with 10m. It has both RCA and XLR in and outputs as standard.
We build batches of ER242 based on orders. A new batch is planned soon. I usually get some pairs more manufactured as have been ordered. If you order tubes no payment is required until the tubes are actually ready to ship.
Best regards
Thomas
Thanks for the thorough explanation. I will Whatsapp you shall I decide to pursue to your direction. Looking very interesting though.
Hi!
They are shown on my product site:
https://www.vinylsavor.com/en/products/phono/
Three versions with internal single ended circuit. They differ in the amount of silver transformers used. Two differential versions, one copper one all silver.
On my blog you will find posts about almost everything I built. All phono preamps can be found under this link:
https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/search/label/LCR RIAA
If you have any questions just ask
Thomas
They are shown on my product site:
https://www.vinylsavor.com/en/products/phono/
Three versions with internal single ended circuit. They differ in the amount of silver transformers used. Two differential versions, one copper one all silver.
On my blog you will find posts about almost everything I built. All phono preamps can be found under this link:
https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/search/label/LCR RIAA
If you have any questions just ask
Thomas
Audio Research ref 2 and then 2 box ref 10 , I loved both but I then heard the top Constellation solid state phono and I believe the extra detail was so needed .
I have a tube pre amp , I then heard the HSE in my system and it just made everything work , vinyl is all I listen too .
Don't worry about having to use adaptors for your tone arm cable , it will sound great . But if you do buy you will probably change to xlr connection it is worth it .
A thought try to get a sound close to your digital but an analog sound. it’s much better to have various sources be close. If not yes you can make as close as possible to not be offensive. all maybe great but to go to analog and to feel it’s far from your digital is tough to deal with. Just my two cents
The cartridge and tonearm are a balanced source. You can get good cable immunity by running the signal balanced from the arm (although it still should be low capacitance). You want state of the art- that is the first step.
To really take advantage of that it helps to have the internal circuitry of the phono section be fully differential and balanced as well. Differential circuit has much greater immunity to both power supply noise and noise injected into the tonearm cable or tonearm from radio or hum sources. Plus any give gain stage has up to 6dB less noise. So if you want state of the art that is the second step- you are looking for a fully differential balanced phono section.
Contrary to popular belief you don't wind up with twice the circuit components although there are more. Differential amplifiers can vary a lot in performance. To increase performance a circuit called a constant current source (CCS) is used. But they have variable performance too. IME the best CCS circuits employ two stages, not one. The difference in performance of the differential gain stage (which can be in the input of the preamp) can be dramatic. So that is something to look for too- although you'll have to ask the manufacturer since that's not likely to show up as a feature or in the specs. One way to know if they have their ducks in a row is to find out what the Common Mode Rejection Ratio is at the input of the phono section. It should be in the high 90s at the very least.
There are advantages to having the phono circuit be in the same box with the line stage. One of them is how the phono section connects to the line stage. If you've ever heard differences in interconnect cables then you have an idea of what I'm talking about. You get rid of that problem and the designer has greater control over how the output of the phono section is treated if its in the same box with the line stage. Some manufacturers try to get around this problem by offering a balanced output. The problem here is that the balanced line system was originally created with a set of standards and if those standards are ignored, its only marginally better than a single-ended connection and changing the cable can make it sound different. Which shouldn't happen!
One of the goals of the balanced line system is to get rid of interconnect cable differences. So ask the manufacturer if you are going with a stand alone phono section whether their product supports AES48 (which is the balanced line standard). IME most high end audio manufacturers don't and often don't even know what it is.
Robert Fulton founded the high end cable industry back in the late 1970s with his Fulton Brown and Fulton Gold speaker cables and his special interconnect. But 30 years before that a high end cable industry got going with similar goals only that system had in mind instead of exotic cables, instead use a set of standards and a bit of hardware to support them to eliminate cable artifacts. That is the balanced standard and was used to run microphone signals as much as 200 feet prior to getting to the microphone preamp for tape recording without degradation. This is how classical and jazz recordings were made in the 1950s and 1960s- we know this system works- some of the world's best recordings were made in this period.
Once you've heard it set up right there really isn't any going back.
There's debate on this topic simply because so many manufacturers for whatever reason don't support the standard.
To really take advantage of that it helps to have the internal circuitry of the phono section be fully differential and balanced as well. Differential circuit has much greater immunity to both power supply noise and noise injected into the tonearm cable or tonearm from radio or hum sources. Plus any give gain stage has up to 6dB less noise. So if you want state of the art that is the second step- you are looking for a fully differential balanced phono section.
Contrary to popular belief you don't wind up with twice the circuit components although there are more. Differential amplifiers can vary a lot in performance. To increase performance a circuit called a constant current source (CCS) is used. But they have variable performance too. IME the best CCS circuits employ two stages, not one. The difference in performance of the differential gain stage (which can be in the input of the preamp) can be dramatic. So that is something to look for too- although you'll have to ask the manufacturer since that's not likely to show up as a feature or in the specs. One way to know if they have their ducks in a row is to find out what the Common Mode Rejection Ratio is at the input of the phono section. It should be in the high 90s at the very least.
There are advantages to having the phono circuit be in the same box with the line stage. One of them is how the phono section connects to the line stage. If you've ever heard differences in interconnect cables then you have an idea of what I'm talking about. You get rid of that problem and the designer has greater control over how the output of the phono section is treated if its in the same box with the line stage. Some manufacturers try to get around this problem by offering a balanced output. The problem here is that the balanced line system was originally created with a set of standards and if those standards are ignored, its only marginally better than a single-ended connection and changing the cable can make it sound different. Which shouldn't happen!
One of the goals of the balanced line system is to get rid of interconnect cable differences. So ask the manufacturer if you are going with a stand alone phono section whether their product supports AES48 (which is the balanced line standard). IME most high end audio manufacturers don't and often don't even know what it is.
Robert Fulton founded the high end cable industry back in the late 1970s with his Fulton Brown and Fulton Gold speaker cables and his special interconnect. But 30 years before that a high end cable industry got going with similar goals only that system had in mind instead of exotic cables, instead use a set of standards and a bit of hardware to support them to eliminate cable artifacts. That is the balanced standard and was used to run microphone signals as much as 200 feet prior to getting to the microphone preamp for tape recording without degradation. This is how classical and jazz recordings were made in the 1950s and 1960s- we know this system works- some of the world's best recordings were made in this period.
Once you've heard it set up right there really isn't any going back.
There's debate on this topic simply because so many manufacturers for whatever reason don't support the standard.
CS Port is a tube phono...
We all know system synergy is important so maybe this comes down to what you can demo?
I am not sure if I understand 100% but I would off course prefer to run 100% balanced, but with my Kondo gear running balanced meaning upgrading to the top of the line pre amp G1000 and Kagura, I have plan for Kagura but I am not sure if I can swing another 100k+ to further upgrade my pre amp. Eventually I would love to go all balanced but for the meantime perhaps it’s wiser if I pick phono with fully balanced topology for future proofing. Thanks for the AES48 pointer, I’ll make sure I ask about that. Appreciate your effort for your thorough explanation
Ch P1 and Allnic DHT8000 actually crossed my mind, especially Allnic as although not absolute I tend to lean to the tube camp. Any further insight into Allnic? I noticed you have Allnic 7000 with Kondo SUT and the rest of your gear are SOTA too, would love to hear what you think.
If this is the case then I would be stuck with HSE Reference. I learn that with SOTA level components, buying blind is actually not that risky because you just don’t get bad sound with SOTA level components hence the reason for this thread, I am willing to buy blind/deaf if I am confident enough with the product suggestions from the great folks here. When I get advice for a component at the price level of 10.000-20.000 I tend to cast it aside although it’s claimed as SOTA, not because I have money to burn because I am not, far from it. It is because I found out that at 10.000-20.000 level you still carry heavy risk when buying blind, on the contrary, at 40.000-100.000 level you just do not get a bad sounding components even though buying blind, yes system synergy is extremely important, but again with more expensive equipment synergy seems to be much more common. In my book, this is a safer bet. Living in Indonesia, I don’t have the luxury of auditioning so many different brands. I wish I could just fly and audition overseas but mandatory full on quarantine for incoming passengers to Indonesia is a big no no for me so I choose to stay in the country until things get back to some sort of normalcy. I already consider myself extremely lucky to be able to home demo HSE but that’s about it.
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the presentation of your system is field coil + horns meets Kondo. crazy serious liquidity and tone. will an ultimate solid state phono go down the right roads, to compliment the delicate and nuanced road you have chosen?
yes; the HSE is a no brainer great performer; but maybe a drag race (space shuttle) engine running a F1 race. grace and humanity might be the deal.
maybe the right SUT based phono gets you closer? choose the right cartridge. a dollop of 'zen' too.
just food for thought.
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So?…… HSE or Kondo M7+SFZ SUT?? Please don’t leave me hanging here…LOL
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