DaaDs - any experiences?

[spiritofmusic]

Francisco, as I mentioned, in the UK, prices for more recent versions, approx
£1k for Daad4
£750 for Daad3
£550 for EcoDaad
£2k for Halifax or Volcano Helmholtz.

At 7-9 Daad4s, 1-3 Daad3s, 20 EcoDaads, and a Halifax or Volcano, just to treat front of room and eaves, that's £25k.

I'm going to follow up on RPG direction, msybe consider the AVAA electronic traps as well.

 

[microstrip]

Francisco, I'm not doubting the efficacy of their products, just the range of choice. Diffusers alone run to nearly half dozen.

How to choose?

IMHO the best is the diffractal - but expensive. The QRD 734 is their battle horse. Remember that quadratic diffusors should have a minimum of 25 cm depth in order to have decent operation at 400 Hz.

All you need to (theoretically ) check acoustic devices http://www.mh-audio.nl/acalculators.asp

 

[spiritofmusic]

25cm? 12"? Really?

 

[microstrip]

25cm? 12"? Really?

25cm = 10" and yes! As far as I remember RPG diffusors are 60x120x27 cm. It is why I can't use them on my lateral walls - room would become too narrow.

The golden rule of acoustic treatments (courtesy of the F. Toole book)

If it is necessary to absorb, attenuate, scatter, or redirect refl ections, the acoustical devices should be similarly effective over the entire spectrum above the transition frequency (say, 300 Hz), not part of it, so the sounds arrive spectrally intact at the listeners’ ears. This is a nontrivial requirement, implying that resistive absorbers should be not less than 3 in. (76 mm) thick and that scattering devices/diffusers must be a significant fraction of a wavelength deep.

 

[bonzo75]

How many RPG panels did you need for your room, micro?

 

[microstrip]

How many RPG panels did you need for your room, micro?

Only the front wall is treated - 9 panels for the XLFs. When using Souldlabs 2 of them (on the side) are replaced by Abbfusors - to partially tame the Soundlab back wave. There is also some RPG flutter free material 4x 120x50 on the side walls beyond the speakers.

The remaining front wall area, along all the edges, is completely filled with mineral rock with the same depth as the diffusors - 27 cm.

The back wall diffusor is an almost full wall bookshelve, filled with books, CDs and boxes of audio accessories ...

 

[XCop5089]

I have been using various Acustica Applicata DAAD's in my system rooms, since 2008.

They were a great help in taming the peaks and troughs experienced in my previous listening room (24' X 11' X 8') and my current room is so much better (22' X 18.5' X 8') acoustically, but the DAAD's still bring a lot to the table!

I have DAAD 4's in each room corner, each topped with a DAAD 3 and a tower of two DAAD 3's placed centrally between the speakers, with DAAD 2's either side to treat the first reflections.

With DAAD room treatment, the bass response is even throughout the room and room reflections effectively dealt with!

Like all room treatment, it is possible to "over-egg" it and end up with a very dead sounding environment. The trick is to experiment and add, one at a time and listen to the result.

View attachment 940A2346.jpg
View attachment 940A2383.jpg

 

[spiritofmusic]

XCop, I had quite the epiphany at the weekend, when having eliminated GIKs from my room some 12 months ago, I reintroduced them, and now wouldn't be without them.

I am minded to consider specialist absorber/diffusion panels like Acustica Daads, and maybe ASC.

Just a couple of qs.

First, did you consider ASC? I ask because it is possible to commission custom lengths, and one can absorb <50Hz w the 24" diameter Tube Traps, but specced for each trap to be up to 9' high.

Second, are you addressing your ceiling? I have descending eaves left and right, and the UK rep is strongly advising EcoDaads in groups of two end to end, at 24" centres, equivalent to at least 20, possibly 32, in my room.

 

[XCop5089]

XCop, I had quite the epiphany at the weekend, when having eliminated GIKs from my room some 12 months ago, I reintroduced them, and now wouldn't be without them.

I am minded to consider specialist absorber/diffusion panels like Acustica Daads, and maybe ASC.

Just a couple of qs.

First, did you consider ASC? I ask because it is possible to commission custom lengths, and one can absorb <50Hz w the 24" diameter Tube Traps, but specced for each trap to be up to 9' high.

Second, are you addressing your ceiling? I have descending eaves left and right, and the UK rep is strongly advising EcoDaads in groups of two end to end, at 24" centres, equivalent to at least 20, possibly 32, in my room.

XCop, I had quite the epiphany at the weekend, when having eliminated GIKs from my room some 12 months ago, I reintroduced them, and now wouldn't be without them.

I am minded to consider specialist absorber/diffusion panels like Acustica Daads, and maybe ASC.

Just a couple of qs.

First, did you consider ASC? I ask because it is possible to commission custom lengths, and one can absorb <50Hz w the 24" diameter Tube Traps, but specced for each trap to be up to 9' high.

Second, are you addressing your ceiling? I have descending eaves left and right, and the UK rep is strongly advising EcoDaads in groups of two end to end, at 24" centres, equivalent to at least 20, possibly 32, in my room.

Hi Marc.

No. I did not consider ASC, which I don't believe were readily available in the UK in 2008, when I was looking at room treatment. I had seen the DAAD's in operation at various Hi Fi shows, when distributed in the UK by Audiofreaks. When The Audio Consultants took over UK distribution of Acustica Applicata products, I was able to borrow various DAADS for extended home evaluation prior to purchase. I did add a number of GIK panels at a later date, but these proved to be a bit OTT for my new house (and partner) hence their sale to you!

No. I am not addressing the ceiling, for the very same reason that I parted with my GIK panels. You are fortunate to have a dedicated listening room, whereas mine has to double as a domestic living room, shared with my partner (she puts up with a lot as it is)!

So. I have gone some way down the path of room treatment, but within the bounds of domestic acceptability.

For me, it makes a difference and these days, I am happy to just listen to the music, without obsessing over the last degree of system tweaking!

 

[bonzo75]

I have been using various Acustica Applicata DAAD's in my system rooms, since 2008.

They were a great help in taming the peaks and troughs experienced in my previous listening room (24' X 11' X 8') and my current room is so much better (22' X 18.5' X 8') acoustically, but the DAAD's still bring a lot to the table!

I have DAAD 4's in each room corner, each topped with a DAAD 3 and a tower of two DAAD 3's placed centrally between the speakers, with DAAD 2's either side to treat the first reflections.

With DAAD room treatment, the bass response is even throughout the room and room reflections effectively dealt with!

Like all room treatment, it is possible to "over-egg" it and end up with a very dead sounding environment. The trick is to experiment and add, one at a time and listen to the result.

View attachment 44787
View attachment 44788

This is beautifully integrated into the room decor

 

[XCop5089]

This is beautifully integrated into the room decor

Thank you Ked.

Acustica Applicata do offer a free consulting package, based on a customer's room dimensions, room plan and system/speaker configuration. I took advantage of this service when I made my initial purchase of DAAD's, based on their recommendation. It was a simple matter of sending them a plan of the room, with everything in place and they send back a positioning guide, together with map of first and secondary room reflections.

http://www.acusticaapplicata.com/consulenza-posta.php?lang=eng

Steve

 

[spiritofmusic]

XCop, I remember you well, picking up yr GIKs and loading them in my friend's van.

Well, they were in my old apartment, then here in the new space, then out, now back in again.

Stephen Harper's advice is v much to emulate you, 4s in corners, 4s and 3s on front wall central & reflection points, side wall reflection points, and rear wall corners and centrally.

I disagree w him re need for rear wall attention, we're talking 20-30' back, and it's already deader back there w lp and cd shelving, odd shaped alcove.

So, that's twelve Daads, mixture of 4s and 3s.

Then the Volcano or Halifax Helmholtz.

And attention to eaves with 20-30 EcoDaads.

You can see how the price is mounting.

ASC tube traps, circular and half rounds (for eaves) could be installed in as similar way, and would come out 1/3 to 1/2 cheaper.

 

[XCop5089]

XCop, I remember you well, picking up yr GIKs and loading them in my friend's van.

Well, they were in my old apartment, then here in the new space, then out, now back in again.

Stephen Harper's advice is v much to emulate you, 4s in corners, 4s and 3s on front wall central & reflection points, side wall reflection points, and rear wall corners and centrally.

I disagree w him re need for rear wall attention, we're talking 20-30' back, and it's already deader back there w lp and cd shelving, odd shaped alcove.

So, that's twelve Daads, mixture of 4s and 3s.

Then the Volcano or Halifax Helmholtz.

And attention to eaves with 20-30 EcoDaads.

You can see how the price is mounting.

ASC tube traps, circular and half rounds (for eaves) could be installed in as similar way, and would come out 1/3 to 1/2 cheaper.

Marc

There is no doubt, that the number of DAAD's etc., that you are proposing for your loft space, will be very expensive!

I think it might be worth your while drawing a plan of your listening space, with speakers and distances to chair etc, clearly marked and send this to Acustica Applicata for their FREE consultation. They will send you back their recommendations, together with a plot, showing exactly where your reflection points are. It's a quick service and you should expect a reply within two weeks.

Steve

 

[spiritofmusic]

I think the expense that I wasn't expecting was the advice to install 20 plus EcoDaads on my eaves
Basically nearly doubles the cost compared to just Daads on corners and walls.

 

[heihei]

OK had a load of DAADs to play with over the weekend......3 DAAD 4's (the biggest), 5 DAAD 3's, and a pair of DAAD 2's. I loaded them up in the suggested positions and measured them with REW in various combinations and......virtually no difference!
Same with using my ears!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Heihei, are you saying there was no difference at all using all those Daads?

Or that there was a difference, and you were able to successfully place them by ear as by measurement?

 

[heihei]

No difference with or without the DAADs.

In some ways quite relieved - wife hates them and they are v expensive! It does highlight the challenge with much of this stuff given it's generally pretty hard to try before you buy.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Heihei, no way do I consider an install of twelve Daads and possibly Volcano helmholtz resonator without home trial first.

My old room would have probably benefitted more from these. Here, the acoustic is very airy and easy w minimal slap echo, my instinct is the Daads won't do that much, certainly not much more than my current basic GIK-out. If this is the case, I'll look at a smaller spend, if needed, on GIK Gotham Quadratic diffusors on front wall, Soffit bass traps in corners, Apha 5a panels on side wall reflection points.

I also remain intrigued by room tuning discs like Mook Mpingo Spatial Control Kit Octet or Harmonix. Possibly SR HFTs and FEQs. Again, home trial or sale/return.

In my case, I've cracked my big limiting factor, my flexy 48x35 floor, isolating spkrs w Revopods/Panzerholz and tt w Stacore/massy slate stand. This has been my big challenge, and its sorted. In my old apartment, I'd have been tearing my hair out over the poor acoustics.

 

[Adimon]

I use DAAD 4 twice and DAAD 2 twice.
One DAAD 4 in each front corner.
1 * DAAD 2 in the middle between the speakers at 5 feet height.
And one DAAD 2 behind the listening chair.
With this I create a "Be there" sound.
The ideal thing about DAADs is that you can tune!
Diffuse/absorb.