dCS Varese short review

[Lee]

@bonzo75 that is simply not true. Please stop with the absolutist, generalized and false statements. It's against the TOS of the forum.

There are people across the globe that enjoy vinyl, digital and tape. You are stating falsehoods that are simply not true or appreciated. You can consider this an official and formal warning because the reminders about this are getting rather tiresome.

Tom

Thank you.

 

[PeterA]

The best part of this thread is that two people that don't like digital, don't own digital have to tell all of those who do that they know better.

Who knows who the two people are? I just admitted that I don’t know anything about streaming services and I certainly don’t know better than you Elliot. For me, it’s just a preference thing based on sound quality. Just as it is for you. I have my biases but try hard not to tell anyone else what they should be doing. I don’t tell people what kind of music to listen to or how to listen to it or what format to listen to.

I’m reading this thread because I had a legitimate question about the aesthetics and functionality of two flagship digital products. I used to be an architect and am interested in functioning design. The discussion has gone all over the place, and some of it I find pretty interesting, especially Andro’s comment about whether or not products should be converging as they become higher quality, or if their sonic character actually diverges based on designers’ intent, abilities, and values.

From what I have read here, the dCS flagship sounds very different from the Wadax flagship, and apparently from the Lampizator. I am curious about how they sound different and why that might be.

And I have no problem with digital only members joining the discussion in vinyl threads.

 

[pk_LA]

As I said earlier those drinking 1000 dollar Evian reviewing Wine

These two metaphors I do not understand. As I read them, I do not agree.

The vegan reference was around a tube fan's preference of the Lampi vs. the Wadax. The irony here being that many of us love tubes AND are also capable of loving ss. I have no doubt, for example, that there are tube/hybrid amplifiers that sound fantastic regardless of your predilection for tubes or ss. I, for one, love tubes. I love the warmth and I love the air. But, I also love ss for its resolution and ability to handle complex transients etc.

I have an MSB Select+Director. It's really good but lacks density and air, to my ears.
I have a Horizon 360. It's really good but lacks dynamics, to my ears.
...and so I keep looking.

 

[bonzo75]

These two metaphors I do not understand. As I read them, I do not agree.

The vegan reference was around a tube fan's preference of the Lampi vs. the Wadax. The irony here being that many of us love tubes AND are also capable of loving ss. I have no doubt, for example, that there are tube/hybrid amplifiers that sound fantastic regardless of your predilection for tubes or ss. I, for one, love tubes. I love the warmth and I love the air. But, I also love ss for its resolution and ability to handle complex transients etc.

I have an MSB Select+Director. It's really good but lacks density and air, to my ears.
I have a Horizon 360. It's really good but lacks dynamics, to my ears.
...and so I keep looking.

I wasn’t referring to tubes vs SS Dacs to start with

 

[bonzo75]

I have an MSB Select+Director. It's really good but lacks density and air, to my ears.
I have a Horizon 360. It's really good but lacks dynamics, to my ears.
...and so I keep looking.

Can you please put a picture of your rack? Weren’t you the one who had a closed rack in the back of the wall that could not hold tubed gear? Sorry if confused but would be good to see a picture of the rack

 

[Al M.]

Who knows who the two people are? I just admitted that I don’t know anything about streaming services and I certainly don’t know better than you Elliot. For me, it’s just a preference thing based on sound quality. Just as it is for you. I have my biases but try hard not to tell anyone else what they should be doing. I don’t tell people what kind of music to listen to or how to listen to it or what format to listen to.

And all the while you were making, without evidence, assumptions about why people were listening to digital rather than to vinyl. That's indirectly suggesting what medium people should be listening to if it were not for those alleged factors.

 

[marty]

Wow. This thread has wandered so far from the OP that the horse is not only out of the barn, but the barn burned down and they put up a McDonalds!

 

[Elliot G.]

Who knows who the two people are?

Really? you can't tell? was I that obtuse? If that is true you are the only one who doesn't know.

Your decision is based you said on SQ but you haven't listened to any of the contemporary digital systems. Like I said a Vegan doing steak reviews.

 

[Elliot G.]

Wow. This thread has wandered so far from the OP that the horse is not only out of the barn, but the barn burned down and they put up a McDonalds!

Only if they use beef tallow!

 

[microstrip]

Wow. This thread has wandered so far from the OP that the horse is not only out of the barn, but the barn burned down and they put up a McDonalds!

Great for dCS and for WBF - it will keep the thread alive and generate forum traffic. It is so easy to find full information on the Varese on the net that there is little to add that it is really new.

 

[PeterA]

Really? you can't tell? was I that obtuse? If that is true you are the only one who doesn't know.

Your decision is based you said on SQ but you haven't listened to any of the contemporary digital systems. Like I said a Vegan doing steak reviews.

You’re very good at changing the topic. First you accused me of telling other people what they should listen to, and how. Yet you cannot show me any evidence that I did that.

Now you are telling me that I can’t have an opinion because I have not heard the latest flagship DACs streaming digital. Your vegan steak analogy is nonsense. I listen to contemporary Digital at my friend’s houses and when one friend sold his Vivaldi stack for a Schitt DAC I thought he made a mistake. I plan to hear Al M’s latest DAC when his new transport arrives.

I don’t tell him what to listen to or what he should prefer. That is a ridiculous claim. To my knowledge, he has not heard these latest super DAC’s. But he can certainly join this discussion.

 

[Argonaut]

Who knows who the two people are? I just admitted that I don’t know anything about streaming services and I certainly don’t know better than you Elliot. For me, it’s just a preference thing based on sound quality. Just as it is for you. I have my biases but try hard not to tell anyone else what they should be doing. I don’t tell people what kind of music to listen to or how to listen to it or what format to listen to.

I’m reading this thread because I had a legitimate question about the aesthetics and functionality of two flagship digital products. I used to be an architect and am interested in functioning design. The discussion has gone all over the place, and some of it I find pretty interesting, especially Andro’s comment about whether or not products should be converging as they become higher quality, or if their sonic character actually diverges based on designers’ intent, abilities, and values.

From what I have read here, the dCS flagship sounds very different from the Wadax flagship, and apparently from the Lampizator. I am curious about how they sound different and why that might be.

And I have no problem with digital only members joining the discussion in vinyl threads.

Oh My … You Really Do Believe that You Can Play Us All For Fools !!!

 

[microstrip]

(...) I listen to contemporary Digital at my friend’s houses and when one friend sold his Vivaldi stack for a Schitt DAC I thought he made a mistake. I plan to hear Al M’s latest DAC when his new transport arrives. (...)

Now I am curious. Why do you go listening to digital in other people systems if you do not appreciate it? I like socializing with audiophiles, but avoid listening to systems or music I do not enjoy - drinks and good meals are much more adequate. Or you simply find that your system does not sound good with digital?

I hope your friend offered his audiophile buddies an excellent dinner, considering the positive revenue balance of the change! He should have read ASR before, probably he would have got a much cheaper Topping DAC ...

 

[PeterA]

And all the while you were making, without evidence, assumptions about why people were listening to digital rather than to vinyl. That's indirectly suggesting what medium people should be listening to if it were not for those alleged factors.

Al, could you quote the post in which you think I tell people what medium they "should be listening to"? I found these two posts which started the discussion I think but do not see what I wrote to support your claim. You can send the post to me privately to spare the readers. I just don't see it.


#1:

We should all find this disappointing. And that's the *only* argument I'm making here: digital is solved in theory, but not in practice. Repeatedly bringing vinyl comparisons into the discussion just muddies the water, whether accidentally or deliberately.

If there's one single box in our systems that should be solvable in a way that all boxes sound the same, regardless of price, it's the DAC: bits in - original analogue waveform out.

I fully acknowledge all the different presentations various vinyl solutions provide, but I think you make a good point about digital and the early claims of “perfect sound forever”. That would have at least implied to me that at the very beginning various digital players would have sounded the same. They did not. And now years later, they still do not.

I think that early marketing pitch or claim or whatever it was, was quickly abandoned. Digital does, however, offer extreme convenience and search capabilities, and based on the products discussed in this thread, lots of opportunity to add many many boxes and cables and different presentations based on filtering choices in some.

#2:

Yes you chose it for the sonics

Perhaps also as a value proposition. I can’t speak for Al. The cost of getting into vinyl with all of the equipment needed for a decent front end plus a good record collection, some might argue that it is less expensive to get into digital.

Sonics, convenience, and cost. Perhaps there are other considerations as well.

 

[PeterA]

Now I am curious. Why do you go listening to digital in other people systems if you do not appreciate it? I like socializing with audiophiles, but avoid listening to systems or music I do not enjoy - drinks and good meals are much more adequate. Or you simply find that your system does not sound good with digital?

I hope your friend offered his audiophile buddies an excellent dinner, considering the positive revenue balance of the change! He should have read ASR before, probably he would have got a much cheaper Topping DAC ...

Micro, When did I say I do not appreciate it? I simply wrote that I PREFER vinyl and have chosen it for myself and for my system. I like socializing with friends too. And I enjoy listening to digital with friends in their systems. Have you not read my many many posts about listening at Al M.'s house, or at Madfloyd's. I even comment on the sound quality positively. I even wrote that I heard digital sounding natural at DDK's system, in three of his systems in fact. I also have written that I enjoy CDs in my truck and streaming on the truck radio.

I have a Thule CDP and it sounds good in my system, and it did in my older systems too. You can see photos in my system thread. I listen to digital over my computer with headphone amp and headphones. I prefer my main system though, with vinyl.

My friend Madfloyd did not buy us dinner when he sold his Vivaldi stack. You are now making jokes trying to be funny. He preferred the sound of the Schitt DAC and moved on from the Vivaldi. He now has other DACs since. I liked the Rossini best during a shoot out, and I reported on that good sound here in these pages of WBF.

I hope this answers your curiosity. I guess I am the vegan who eats steak too.

 

[Al M.]

Al, could you quote the post in which you think I tell people what medium they "should be listening to"?

That is not what I said. I wrote:

And all the while you were making, without evidence, assumptions about why people were listening to digital rather than to vinyl. That's indirectly suggesting what medium people should be listening to if it were not for those alleged factors.

Please read carefully. "Telling people" and "indirectly suggesting what medium people should be listening to if it were not for those alleged factors" are two very different things, even though the practical outcome of intent may be the same.

I found these two posts which started the discussion I think but do not see what I wrote to support your claim. You can send the post to me privately to spare the readers. I just don't see it.

[...]

#2:

Perhaps also as a value proposition. I can’t speak for Al. The cost of getting into vinyl with all of the equipment needed for a decent front end plus a good record collection, some might argue that it is less expensive to get into digital.

Sonics, convenience, and cost. Perhaps there are other considerations as well.

Yes, it's # 2 that you cite (originally post #647). Your assumptions are clear. What the insinuations are is quite obvious to me (and I suspect, to others).

Also #726 on the previous thread page.

("That's what I had assumed," in your reply to Bonzo.)

***

Maybe I am misreading all this, but if so, your posts do have a certain way of being suggestive.

 

[treitz3]

Gentlemen......38 pages of chit on the channel to choose from.....

A take from Pink Floyd.

Since there is nothing but a free channel of arguing, so way off topic? This thread will be closed now.

If anyone can present a case to where this thread should be reopened (on topic)?

Well, present it. Until then?

Tom