Do Mobile Fidelity Vinyl Re-issues Have a Digital Step in the Process?

[bonzo75]

i think this is an understandable approach. it's not one i choose personally.

my wife insists we only buy organic food at the grocery store wherever possible. and we surely do about 99% of the time. it's rare when she goes outside of that approach. lots of food is grown organic but not certified. or is not yet certified. so that's a grey area.

Not same analogy. We believe organic is better, there can be no way we personally can tell if it is healthy. We rely on reports. With vinyl you personally can tell if something is better (here better = healthy). So either you go by it or make this about dishonesty.

In the organic/inorganic food you are relatively uneducated compared to what you are in audio

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Not same analogy. We believe organic is better, there can be no way we personally can tell if it is healthy. We rely on reports. With vinyl you personally can tell if something is better (here better = healthy). So either you go by it or make this about dishonesty.

In the organic/inorganic food you are relatively uneducated compared to what you are in audio

i think it fits perfectly. it's about labels and beliefs, not about the result.

we think that the label = satisfaction. lack of label = unknown or problem.

when reality is that satisfaction = satisfaction. the label is just a data point, maybe a good or great one.....depending.

the one legit rational is that using labels can simplify things, but also at a cost of eliminating choices. it takes work to explore beyond the labels. not everyone is into that.

how much do we care about all the music? or are we content to limit ourselves? no right or wrong to it. just a perspective. takes more work to explore and discover....but can be lots of fun and satisfying.

 

[Solypsa]

Without counting through 400 posts, I will say my impression is that a lot of the posters have said they don't particularly like the sound of these records anyway. That is, in the end, the relevant data point, no?

 

[dminches]

Without counting through 400 posts, I will say my impression is that a lot of the posters have said they don't particularly like the sound of these records anyway. That is, in the end, the relevant data point, no?

JMO, but I don't think people didn't like the sound because there was a digital step because few people knew or thought there was a digital step. I think a lot of people, myself included, sometime have issues with how MoFi in general does their mastering. I am not pointing out anything other than personal choice.

On the contrary, I seem to like how Kevin Gray masters recordings almost all the time

Finally, I have several one steps including Monk's Dream and SRV's Texas Flood. I think these sound wonderful.

 

[Ian B]

Sorry to be pedantic. This flow chart is still deliberately misleading. They aren’t all DSD256. There are multiple that are cut from DSD64. Once again bs from the company.

It's not possible that releases prior to 2011-12 used DSD256, because it did not yet exist. On those titles looks like they cut from the same files they use for SACD. From all that I can tell, the flow chart is their modern process as has existed for 7-10 years.

 

[Ian B]

JMO, but I don't think people didn't like the sound because there was a digital step because few people knew or thought there was a digital step. I think a lot of people, myself included, sometime have issues with how MoFi in general does their mastering. I am not pointing out anything other than personal choice.

On the contrary, I seem to like how Kevin Gray masters recordings almost all the time

Finally, I have several one steps including Monk's Dream and SRV's Texas Flood. I think these sound wonderful.

Yeah. I can think of a few old school MoFi releases that sounded cold and thin, which were definitely not digital.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

It's not possible that releases prior to 2011-12 used DSD256, because it did not yet exist. On those titles looks like they cut from the same files they use for SACD. From all that I can tell, the flow chart is their modern process as has existed for 7-10 years.

Hi Ian,

Their latest releases of Miles are dsd64

 

[Ian B]

Hi Ian,

Their latest releases of Miles are dsd64

Hmm. In this case, one could suspect it is a Sony archive recording, and the actual tapes are gone. Or they decided the DSD64 capable converters sounded better for this release. Their old SACD chain used a stellar EMM Labs converter. DSD256 has to be Merging or Playback Designs conversion. If it is Merging, I feel that the EMM Labs ADC has better tone, if less ultimate resolution.

 

[Lagonda]

I believe Love Over Gold was the last Dire Straits album to be recorded in analog. The digital recording started with Brothers In Arms.

Listening to "Love Over Gold" again confirmed my suspicion, Pick Withers drums sound like drum machines ! After perusing the cover of my original "Vertigo" copy, i found the proud badge " Digitally mastered" !

 

[microstrip]

One interesting observation arising from this controversy is the change in philosophy and perspective of the record labels about the value and importance of their original analog master tapes. For many years my father was Senior Vice President of Business Affairs at Atlantic Records. In the late 1980s he and I organized Resnick Records LLC to borrow original master tapes from record labels and to pay the labels a licensing fee in return for using their tapes to re-issue some of my personal favorite rock and pop titles. A contract was drafted, and we received a licensing fee schedule from Atlantic. I couldn’t afford to pay the licensing fee in advance, so the project never went forward.

I think it would be great to clarify what is meant by "original master tape". As far as I have read, the first generation stereo master taper (recorded directly from the mixing/mastering console) seldom sees the light - it is immediately copied to a master copy. Sometimes the first generation is a 1/2" or 1" tape. The second generation becomes the de facto "original master tape".

I have questioned myself why the studios do not produce more than one first generation master copy running several tape machines in parallel - perhaps they do it, we just don't know.

This was when CDs were exploding in popularity and, after their titles were converted to digital, the labels didn’t assign much value to the original master tapes. Can you imagine record labels even entertaining the idea of just turning over their priceless original master tapes to my father and me in Manhattan so we can FedEx them to some remastering studio in Los Angeles?

We were told that some studios even dumped them. Some people own master tapes because many years later they were able to get them in very bizarre situations.

 

[microstrip]

Without counting through 400 posts, I will say my impression is that a lot of the posters have said they don't particularly like the sound of these records anyway. That is, in the end, the relevant data point, no?

Without counting we always get the impression that negatives win, particularly in a thread where many people probably feel uncomfortable with their hearing abilities and feel they have been tricked. For me the relevant data point is that people feel that MFSL had a dishonest behavior.

I felt I did not need to express my opinion on MFSL recordings, but as I have referred before in WBF, it is very positive. Many audiophiles I visited also own appreciate them. Most known reviewers, including M. Fremer, wrote hyperbolic reviews on them. On the negative side Harry Pearson was known to dislike their mastering. Surely I also condemn their dishonest attitudes. I think they should be sentenced to sell the DSD256 or DSD128 copies of the original masters at a decent price!

 

[Tango]

Yup. And it looks like my Blood On The Tracks is DSD64.

May I ask. Did you enjoy the album and its sound before realizing this?

 

[dminches]

Listening to "Love Over Gold" again confirmed my suspicion, Pick Withers drums sound like drum machines ! After perusing the cover of my original "Vertigo" copy, i found the proud badge " Digitally mastered" !

I don't know what version of Love Over Gold you have but that was their last analog master. When they did the box set of the 6 albums this is what they said:

Bernie Grundman mastered the first four titles from analogue masters, with lacquers cut by Grundman and Chris Bellman; Brothers in Arms and On Every Street mastered by Bob Ludwig and cut by Chris Bellman. All are pressed on beautiful 180 Gram Vinyl. The CD running order with full length versions of the tracks have been restored to Brothers In Arms, now presented as a 2xLP set, as well as a double vinyl of On Every Street.

 

[Audire]

I think they should be sentenced to sell the DSD256 or DSD128 copies of the original masters at a decent price!

At a penny per album they may good frisbees.

 

[Solypsa]

I
don't know what version of Love Over Gold you have but that was their last analog master. When they did the box set of the 6 albums this is what they said

Bernie Grundman mastered the first four titles from analogue masters, with lacquers cut by Grundman and Chris Bellman; Brothers in Arms and On Every Street mastered by Bob Ludwig and cut by Chris Bellman. All are pressed on beautiful 180 Gram Vinyl.

Cool probably AAA afaik but the language is still vague....

 

[Catcher10]

Can someone advise if there currently are digital cut records for sale, new and not resale, that sell for $100-$125? PS Audio's little boutique Octave Records presses records from DSD, sells them for $50, these are full studio recordings done as DSD originally. I have tons of records that are cut from 24bit/96 and 192 and MoFi's apparently cut from DSD......Steven Wilson remix/remastered records he has done for King Crimson, JTull, Yes, XTC, Gentle Giant and his own Porcupine Tree are all cut from digital that he has remix/remastered from original tapes
The JTull Thick As A Brick and Aqualung are easily lauded as some of the best sounding versions produced, many of Porcupine Tree albums sound amazing......NOT A SINGLE ONE COST $100-$125.
These albums have all run from $25-$40, now if your going to tell me that using a DSD file to cut lacquers is worth another $80 in sound improvement.....well I have some beach front property for you cheap in Phoenix.
That's the main problem I have with MoFi now, I don't care about DSD part it is what it is now, as a consumer I do not believe their digital records are worth anywhere close to what they want.
This is not an analog vs digital discussion, those discussions are subjective and for another time and place. The discussion is about how MoFi will react to fix their debacle and make the consumer feel whole again, to buy their product. If consumers continue to pay $100-$125 then what lesson has MoFi learned?? I would venture to say they will come out smelling like a friggin' ROSE!!!!

Pathetic....

 

[Solypsa]

My perspective is that the cost to do a proper full analog transfer is a bit obtuse - meaning : if a label has tape masters ( and ) they send them to a vinyl mastering house with a tape machine [ setting aside preview / variable pitch for a moment ] and [if] they *can* cut the master in analog ( no major dsp required ) then why would they not? Oh maybe because they think it will help? Or who knows? But this idea that it relates to money as in cost to produce is ( although not entirely invalid ) a bit premature.

 

[Lagonda]

I am talking about the original Vertigo release that i bought 1982 in Europe, printed in Germany. The 3 earlier albums are definitely AAA, and sound that way too. Maybe MoFi really got ahold of analog masters in this case, but even the wording in your quote is somewhat deceptive, making it sound like all albums where from analog masters.

I don't know what version of Love Over Gold you have but that was their last analog master. When they did the box set of the 6 albums this is what they said:

Bernie Grundman mastered the first four titles from analogue masters, with lacquers cut by Grundman and Chris Bellman; Brothers in Arms and On Every Street mastered by Bob Ludwig and cut by Chris Bellman. All are pressed on beautiful 180 Gram Vinyl. The CD running order with full length versions of the tracks have been restored to Brothers In Arms, now presented as a 2xLP set, as well as a double vinyl of On Every Street.

 

[dminches]

I am talking about the original Vertigo release that i bought 1982 in Europe, printed in Germany. The 3 earlier albums are definitely AAA, and sound that way too. Maybe MoFi really got ahold of analog masters in this case, but even the wording in your quote is somewhat deceptive, making it sound like all albums where from analog masters.View attachment 96168View attachment 96169

It is interesting that the original UK issue doesn’t say digital mastering.

 

[bonzo75]

Sorry to hear that! Bastards.

did you mean MoFos