Do Mobile Fidelity Vinyl Re-issues Have a Digital Step in the Process?

[Audiophile Bill]

So, one album selling for $700 means every music lover doesn't mind a digital step? You should have said "one music lover" didn't mind a digital step.

Also you are assuming he knows what he is buying. Does he know of the MoFi scandal? Had he ever purchased a MoFi record before? Too many questions to even say he is even a music lover … he might think it’s an investment!

Can't help that someone is willing to pay an excessive amount for Pinocchio Vinyl. Just another dummy on a string.

That one music lover, alas, probably hasn’t realised that A: he has been conned, and B: his $700 record will be plummeting in value in the imminent future.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

But music lovers do not seem to care about the digital step - yesterday Bill Evans - Sunday at the Village Vanguard LP Box One-Step MFSL in sealed condition sold for usd 700 at eBay!

never paid attention to this One Step title since i owned the AP 45, and then the AP 45 and 1/4" 15ips Tape Project of "Waltz For Debbie". figured that was enough from these sessions. now 20 years later what more can those tapes tell us?

people buy things for many reasons. and not everyone pays attention to hifi forums. this MoFi debacle has just barely began to effect values. who knows where it goes?

if we learn anything from this sale, it's ignorance, not absence of caring. $700 is proof of caring, and not knowing. my guess is that they googled the title, saw Acoustic Sounds has it listed for $995, and dived in believing in Acoustic Sounds, not that they as an informed buyer knew the marketplace....or did not care about the digital step.

 

[MikeHorns]

But music lovers do not seem to care about the digital step - yesterday Bill Evans - Sunday at the Village Vanguard LP Box One-Step MFSL in sealed condition sold for usd 700 at eBay!

That is one of the few that are 'supposedly' all analog, according to MoFi updated information.

1/4" / 15 IPS analog master​

https://mofi.com/collections/ultrad...t_the_village_vanguard_180g_45rpm_2lp_box_set

 

[microstrip]

never paid attention to this One Step title since i owned the AP 45, and then the AP 45 and 1/4" 15ips Tape Project of "Waltz For Debbie". figured that was enough from these sessions. now 20 years later what more can those tapes tell us?

people buy things for many reasons. and not everyone pays attention to hifi forums. this MoFi debacle has just barely began to effect values. who knows where it goes?

if we learn anything from this sale, it's ignorance, not absence of caring. $700 is proof of caring, and not knowing. my guess is that they googled the title, saw Acoustic Sounds has it listed for $995, and dived in believing in Acoustic Sounds, not that they as an informed buyer knew the marketplace....or did not care about the digital step.

Exactly. These editions are numbered and limited and for the majority of audiophiles are high quality - only the future will tell what will happen, although it is likely prices will lower - some sealed boxes were being advertised over $2k!

Audiophiles following forums are a minority. And as the Washington Post article is behind a paywall it will be ignored by most people in audio forums - audiophiles do not like to pay for knowledge, they got used to free informations supplied by manufacturers marketing.

 

[davidavdavid]

Ok, with that as a challenge:

archive.ph

And the wall comes tumbling down.

 

[microstrip]

Ok, with that as a challenge:

archive.ph

And the wall comes tumbling down.

Thanks. A very interesting article - a great summary and a few different perspectives. Still some unanswered questions - what happened between 2008 and 2011? When did they switch from DSD fo DSD256?

 

[howiebrou]

I spoke with one of the large record distributors at the HK show. He was seriously pissed at MoFi and said his business was the one that suffers as he has a lot of their stock which is now unsellable.

 

[Folsom]

I spoke with one of the large record distributors at the HK show. He was seriously pissed at MoFi and said his business was the one that suffers as he has a lot of their stock which is now unsellable.

I've said it a few times the only lawsuit I can imagine is with people like this, essentially large quantities of false products. Some lawyers have said expect nothing but... I can still see this.

 

[Fsonicsmith]

Reading up and down the entire thread there is a lot of mixed language being bandied about.
The mastering process is separate from the cutting process.
MoFi has advertised all-analogue cutting and does.
It is in the mastering process that a digital version of the original master tape is (and must) be used-reference my previous post on page 28 of this thread. I will say it again. Anyone who thought MoFi or any of their audiophile competitors was mastering off of the original tape does not know much about the recording industry or the limitations of 30-50 year old analogue tape of "recorded gems".

 

[dminches]

Reading up and down the entire thread there is a lot of mixed language being bandied about.
The mastering process is separate from the cutting process.
MoFi has advertised all-analogue cutting and does.
It is in the mastering process that a digital version of the original master tape is (and must) be used-reference my previous post on page 28 of this thread. I will say it again. Anyone who thought MoFi or any of their audiophile competitors was mastering off of the original tape does not know much about the recording industry or the limitations of 30-50 year old analogue tape of "recorded gems".

If you are referring to the availability of tapes that may be true. However, many labels are mastering off master tapes. Blue Note Tone Poet or Classic series does. Some of Craft’s releases are. Analogue Productions does.

 

[Folsom]

Tapes last longer being played occasionally,

 

[howiebrou]

This thread should be re-named;

Which Mobile Fidelity Vinyl Re-issues Do Not Have a Digital Step in the Process?​

 

[Folsom]

My reply would be the same... It's like asking if poop has corn in it or not.

 

[howiebrou]

My reply would be the same... It's like asking if poop has corn in it or not.

Surprisingly it is a question I have oft asked!

 

[adrianywu]

Reading up and down the entire thread there is a lot of mixed language being bandied about.
The mastering process is separate from the cutting process.
MoFi has advertised all-analogue cutting and does.
It is in the mastering process that a digital version of the original master tape is (and must) be used-reference my previous post on page 28 of this thread. I will say it again. Anyone who thought MoFi or any of their audiophile competitors was mastering off of the original tape does not know much about the recording industry or the limitations of 30-50 year old analogue tape of "recorded gems".

I have heard master tapes on acetate from the 1950s that sound far superior than any LP of the recording, including the original shaded dogs. I have made copies of my session masters for various purposes, and in all cases, I doubt anyone could tell the difference between the original and the copy. The act of mastering a recording and cutting a lacquer lose so much that the difference between using the "original" master (whatever that means, but let's just say an edited work part) and a properly made copy of the same is comparatively insignificant. I seriously doubt anyone can make the claim that doing a 4xDSD "master" will result in a better sounding vinyl than making a 1/2" analog master for the cutting. But of course, the DSD "master" is much cheaper and does not require any space for storage. I have just started to systematically go through all the versions of vinyl of titles that I also have master tape copies of. The idea is to get rid of the inferior sounding ones to make space, but I might end up getting rid of all the LPs ! I have just gone through the Decca Solti/CSO Beethoven 9th (1972), including the narrow band box set, the 1981 MFSL reissue and the Speakers Corner reissue, all bought new at various times. The MFSL sounds the best amongst the LPs, but this is not saying much, as it still falls far short of the tape.

 

[bonzo75]

I have just gone through the Decca Solti/CSO Beethoven 9th (1972), including the narrow band box set, the 1981 MFSL reissue and the Speakers Corner reissue, all bought new at various times. The MFSL sounds the best amongst the LPs, but this is not saying much, as it still falls far short of the tape.

This is not a good LP choice for the exercise as it is not a good representation of the good Decca LPs.

There are many other originals you could try, from Decca 2xxx wideband series, upto 1963.

 

[adrianywu]

This is not a good LP choice for the exercise as it is not a good representation of the good Decca LPs.

There are many other originals you could try, from Decca 2xxx wideband series, upto 1963.

Sure. This is just the start. The recording itself is not the best Gordon Parry/Wilkie production, probably because they were using a new venue in Illinois that they were unfamiliar with. But the quality of the LPs themselves can vary widely. Over the years, I have bought multiple copies of some favorite recordings, mainly Deccas and EMIs, to find the best sounding one, and the sound quality is often all over the place. Walking into a record store and buying a record is like a roll of the dice. This is what is so frustrating about vinyl. There are many great recordings in the wide band series, as they used tube equipment and had no Dolby NR. However, the LPs of that period were crude, and most of my wide band Deccas have distortions. On the other hand, the tapes sound great !

 

[bonzo75]

Sure. This is just the start. The recording itself is not the best Gordon Parry/Wilkie production, probably because they were using a new venue in Illinois that they were unfamiliar with. But the quality of the LPs themselves can vary widely. Over the years, I have bought multiple copies of some favorite recordings, mainly Deccas and EMIs, to find the best sounding one, and the sound quality is often all over the place. Walking into a record store and buying a record is like a roll of the dice. This is what is so frustrating about vinyl. There are many great recordings in the wide band series, as they used tube equipment and had no Dolby NR. However, the LPs of that period were crude, and most of my wide band Deccas have distortions. On the other hand, the tapes sound great !

Totally agree on the high standard deviation, which is why there are differing opinions about originals, and it really requires listening to many copies to choose a great original. Also, if you find a Decca mastertape that is better than the Decca LP, some other label might have an original LP which you prefer to the Decca tape, and that LP might not have the corresponding master tape accessible.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I have heard master tapes on acetate from the 1950s that sound far superior than any LP of the recording, including the original shaded dogs. I have made copies of my session masters for various purposes, and in all cases, I doubt anyone could tell the difference between the original and the copy. The act of mastering a recording and cutting a lacquer lose so much that the difference between using the "original" master (whatever that means, but let's just say an edited work part) and a properly made copy of the same is comparatively insignificant. I seriously doubt anyone can make the claim that doing a 4xDSD "master" will result in a better sounding vinyl than making a 1/2" analog master for the cutting. But of course, the DSD "master" is much cheaper and does not require any space for storage. I have just started to systematically go through all the versions of vinyl of titles that I also have master tape copies of. The idea is to get rid of the inferior sounding ones to make space, but I might end up getting rid of all the LPs ! I have just gone through the Decca Solti/CSO Beethoven 9th (1972), including the narrow band box set, the 1981 MFSL reissue and the Speakers Corner reissue, all bought new at various times. The MFSL sounds the best amongst the LPs, but this is not saying much, as it still falls far short of the tape.

The purported rationale for the claim for improving upon the original tape is down to the implementation of digital algorithms to correct and solve for, for example, wow and flutter anomalies on the tape. One of Fremer’s mofi videos outlines this a little. Whether you “buy” it (the purported benefits of the algorithms vs native) is a different story.

Best.

 

[mtemur]

The mastering process is separate from the cutting process.
MoFi has advertised all-analogue cutting and does.
It is in the mastering process that a digital version of the original master tape is (and must) be used-reference my previous post on page 28 of this thread

No. Mastering processes is a part of cutting lacquer. Whether you’re cutting from tape or digital file, analog signal goes through mastering console to amplifiers and finally to cutter head. You need a mastering process even for a previously mastered tape or file.

Mastering also means shining sound or achieving a desired sound for the last 40+ years but during the vinyl era mastering meant basically cutting lacquers that will play without problems. That’s why people who cut lacquers are called mastering engineers.

MOFI doesn’t mention any mastering process while transferring music from tape to dsd or any digital mastering afterwards. So it’s not a mastering process, it’s simply a digital transfer. They do mastering while cutting lacquers.