Hot off the presses:
http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php...t-what-you-pay-for&catid=25:opinion&Itemid=27
http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php...t-what-you-pay-for&catid=25:opinion&Itemid=27
Do You Always Get What You Pay For?
- Thread starter Jeff Fritz
- Start date
Can't argue with this.
Great writing Jeff. That's a big message to get across clearly in a very short editorial. I especially like that you used very simple language.
Great writing Jeff. That's a big message to get across clearly in a very short editorial. I especially like that you used very simple language.
Have to agree with the other comments, hopefully other editors and writers will take due diligance to a broader scope as you have been recently (beyond just some products that come through their publication).
BTW when will the reader's letter be published about the preamp, was hoping to read that
Thanks
Orb
BTW when will the reader's letter be published about the preamp, was hoping to read that
Thanks
Orb
Good stuff, Jeff. I'd personally add one last category -- the hundreds, if not thousands of high-end products that are well-engineered and sound very good, but no better than many products at a fraction of the price.
P
P
Nice article, Jeff! You and I must've had the same thing on our minds, because I wrote a similar editorial (with a slightly different bias) in the current issue of the mag. In this tough economy, some high-end manufacturers need to up their game a bit!
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
You definitely stabbed the elephant! Personally, I only browse what the magazines review to audition the stuff. Unless I am intimately familiar with the brand and the reviewer's system, the words without listening are quite meaningless. Sorry, I am not trying to hurt any audio writer's self esteem here. But this is the truth. Audio is an experience! I know conrad johnson, BAT, ayre, and many other sounds really well, but not having heard Lamm, I can only imagine what it sounds like. Once I hear the gear, I closely read as many reviews as I can. If there are few reviews, I guard my wallet!
Additionally, one has to consider the reviewer's system. If it's not as resolving, some of the grain may or may not come through. Also, there are musical tastes and equipment realism triggers. I, for the life of me, cannot understand how people can enjoy Mark Levinson gear or the Pass Labs XA series (the X series is the real deal to my ears). But this is a hobby.
So the question becomes who do you trust and how are you influenced to purchase something...
Additionally, one has to consider the reviewer's system. If it's not as resolving, some of the grain may or may not come through. Also, there are musical tastes and equipment realism triggers. I, for the life of me, cannot understand how people can enjoy Mark Levinson gear or the Pass Labs XA series (the X series is the real deal to my ears). But this is a hobby.
So the question becomes who do you trust and how are you influenced to purchase something...
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
That is very true and should be the goal. But life is not so simple. We, as human beings, don't live in a vacuum. We are under constant assault for our attention and everyone is always trying to influence us - whether we realize this or not. I have a background in behavioral sciences, so a lot of this is glaring to me, but unfortunately not to many others... So when an influential reviewer proclaims something as "best" or you see a product on a magazine cover callled "revolutionary" or you get into a chummy conversation with the dealer and are reaching for your wallet or you have a great relationship with the company's service rep...or a dealer loans you gear several times and you feel like you have to reciprocate, especially when something has been on the cover of the magazine....
Anyone who likes to read should check out a book by Cialdini called influence to stand on guard of their mind. Then read it 10-15 times for the stuff to sink in. It's a classic. It will help your quote become true in reality.
Rich
I did read your editorial and I would say that both the tenor ad conclusions are opposite of what Jeff said. It did struck me as a defense of the flight toward ever higher price that now is the modus operandi of the High End Audio Industry. I am not too sure such pricing strategy is a sensible approach in these days and ages ...
Agreed Frantzm, on the other hand the available options of entry-level equipment has never been so large as far as I remember.
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Unfortunately, what is "value" to you and to me might not be of the same value to someone else because our measure of "value" may be different. The high end exists because there are people who are willing to pay for them. Jeff's editorial is a breath of fresh air because he has dared to air it, but I am sure is on the back of all our minds - are we getting what we pay for in the High End?
Perhaps instead of "High End", we should distinguish the hand-crafted, artisan products. Some of these products are pieces of art, not engineering, and they are distinguished by their sonic signature which some people love and crave. In this category I would place an amplifier like the Yamamoto. If you crave that sound, you do get what you pay for. But like pieces of art, every amplifier is different (but still sounds beautiful).
On the other hand, you have real "high-end" sound, excellent engineering, reasonable prices like all the latest Parasound preamps and power amps. But at that price, there aren't going to be owners on this forum raving over how great their $4000 preamp is (and despite being the owner of a $28,000 preamp, I would regard the JC2 as a great preamp).
Is the mass market JC2 at $4,000 "low end" as compared to the Steve McCormack VRE-1B at $16,000? Do you get what you pay $12,000 more for? If Steve were able to manufacture and sell 500 units of the VRE-1 a month, he could probably make it at the same price, but it won't have the hand crafted non-metallic chassis, ear-selected, matched and high-tolerance components (each and every one of which he can describe the sonic signature of), and the lack of a remote control.
To Tom, he wants excellent engineering, and a no "house sound". To another listener, he may want a "golden midrange", and to another a "rich mid-bass". We probably all listen to different music. Listening to old Brit rock (Genesis, Queen, The Police), I need a system with full bass. Listening to the same system with modern, well-recorded Jazz Quartet (like Happy Coat on FIM) the bass would be bloated and boomy.
My bottom line is that I listen to music, not components. I am a music-phile and not an audiophile, and hence like Tom, I want transparency and a flat frequency response because of the wide range of music I listen to..... with the understanding that to get well-reproduced Ray Brown, I have to give up some of Phil Collin's kick drum.
Perhaps instead of "High End", we should distinguish the hand-crafted, artisan products. Some of these products are pieces of art, not engineering, and they are distinguished by their sonic signature which some people love and crave. In this category I would place an amplifier like the Yamamoto. If you crave that sound, you do get what you pay for. But like pieces of art, every amplifier is different (but still sounds beautiful).
On the other hand, you have real "high-end" sound, excellent engineering, reasonable prices like all the latest Parasound preamps and power amps. But at that price, there aren't going to be owners on this forum raving over how great their $4000 preamp is (and despite being the owner of a $28,000 preamp, I would regard the JC2 as a great preamp).
Is the mass market JC2 at $4,000 "low end" as compared to the Steve McCormack VRE-1B at $16,000? Do you get what you pay $12,000 more for? If Steve were able to manufacture and sell 500 units of the VRE-1 a month, he could probably make it at the same price, but it won't have the hand crafted non-metallic chassis, ear-selected, matched and high-tolerance components (each and every one of which he can describe the sonic signature of), and the lack of a remote control.
To Tom, he wants excellent engineering, and a no "house sound". To another listener, he may want a "golden midrange", and to another a "rich mid-bass". We probably all listen to different music. Listening to old Brit rock (Genesis, Queen, The Police), I need a system with full bass. Listening to the same system with modern, well-recorded Jazz Quartet (like Happy Coat on FIM) the bass would be bloated and boomy.
My bottom line is that I listen to music, not components. I am a music-phile and not an audiophile, and hence like Tom, I want transparency and a flat frequency response because of the wide range of music I listen to..... with the understanding that to get well-reproduced Ray Brown, I have to give up some of Phil Collin's kick drum.
A $4,000 JC2 mass market? Are you sure you understand the term? Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not casting aspersions on any gear. Nor am I suggesting that anyone pays or paid too much or too little for anything. However, a $4,000 piece of audio gear is by no means mass market. Mass market is a $1,000 HTIB and a $1,000 LCD TV with the other $2,000 spent on new living room furniture. You really should get out more.
It would seem to me that if your system is transparent and flat a recording that sounds bloated or bass deficient is the result of a bad recording. Therefore if Ray Brown sounds good and Phil Collins' kick drum doesn't it's the recording at fault.
It would seem to me that if your system is transparent and flat a recording that sounds bloated or bass deficient is the result of a bad recording. Therefore if Ray Brown sounds good and Phil Collins' kick drum doesn't it's the recording at fault.
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Well, "mass market" to the high-end audiophile. My point (badly put) is that I haven't heard any of my customers brag about a JC2, but they would brag over a $20,000 preamp that may not sound as good.
If the system gives us pleasure, then what we get what is worth paying for. If it doesn't bring pleasure, then we don't get what we pay for. But that pleasure might not even be listening to music, but just mere ownership.
If the system gives us pleasure, then what we get what is worth paying for. If it doesn't bring pleasure, then we don't get what we pay for. But that pleasure might not even be listening to music, but just mere ownership.
A$20,000 preamp that doesn't sound as good is exactly what this thread is all about.
