Don’t Meet Your Heroes!

[treitz3]

I have a lot of trouble believing that any dealer would exhibit a system about which he/she feels this way.

It happens often. More often than you may think. Think price points...

Tom

 

[Elliot G.]

want three different opinions? ask two audiophiles!
I have said this numerous times How can a system be the best and the worst at the same time. I am not a fan of the system described however its hard to accept that it was THAT bad in a room that looks reasonable.
IMO Mac isnt anywhere near the state of the art. Its the entry level to high end but it is not the cutting edge, not even close. People can like whatever they want and they do.
Audio has good, very good, excellent, great and the state of the art. The last catagory is always in flux and changes fairly frequently however all those catagories come into play depending on experience and taste. I am sure that Mr. Denney with his gear can change the sound and make it differerent, perhaps a lot different but in the end you can't make a station wagon into a sports car. Analogy for effect only not a direct thought on these products.

 

[Elliot G.]

I have a lot of trouble believing that any dealer would exhibit a system about which he/she feels this way.

I wont speak to anyone in specifics but in my experience I have walked into rooms in both clients homes and at shows which IMO are a disgrace. Out of phase, channels , reversed, speakers not even close to being positioned, cable and power nightmares and they played it for me and others.SO if they played with thier heads up high and their shoulders back I must assume they were happy with it no?

 

[Charles S]

Is "Bretson" you second screen name?

Respectfully Ron, there are such things as trolls. The AlexxV is well established as very fine sounding speaker, and Dag is very fine amplification. His observations make zero sense to me, and he is using hyperbole, i.e., strong insulting language. I'm a huge McIntosh afficionado but do I think that Mac will sound better than Dag with Wilsons to the majority of high-end ears? I do not. Also have you noticed that all it takes is a harsh criticism of Wilson and out come the Wilson haters, ready to pounce, hoping that your readers will believe their nonsense.

These comments are not worth my time refuting.

Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest

Amps: McIntosh: MC3500MKII (2); MC1.25KW (2); MC2.1KW An
Preamp: C-12000 An
Sources: MCD12000 An; MVP881; MVP851; MR87; Marantz 510LV; Lenovo Yoga laptop
Speakers: Wilson Chronosonic XVX
Sub-Woofer: Wilson Thor’s Hammer; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables Main System AQ: WEL Signature speaker cables; 24’ balanced IC; balanced 1-meter Dragon IC ; WEL Signature digital, Coffee digital coaxial cables; Diamond optical (2); Diamond USB; Dragon (5 HC, 3 source cords); Thunder & Monsoon power cords
Cables Subwoofer System AQ: Redwood speaker cable; Wolf balanced subwoofer IC; Wind balanced IC to ActivXO; Hurricane HC; Firebird HC; Firebird Source; Dragon HC, power cords
Power Conditioners: AQ Niagara 7000; Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines.
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals; Bassocontinuo McIntosh Ultra Feet; X-material plinth
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD)
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes

 

[exupgh12]

but in the end you can't make a station wagon into a sports car. Analogy for effect only not a direct thought on these products.

Pardon…..

2025 Audi RS 6 Avant performance | Luxury performance wagon | Audi USA

With 621 HP and plenty of cargo room, the 2025 RS 6 Avant performance offers a fusion of sport and utility.

www.audiusa.com

 

[Elliot G.]

Pardon…..

2025 Audi RS 6 Avant performance | Luxury performance wagon | Audi USA

With 621 HP and plenty of cargo room, the 2025 RS 6 Avant performance offers a fusion of sport and utility.

www.audiusa.com

I stand by my statement LOL They are getting clsoer my friend lol

 

[sbnx]

Hi All,

Just wanted to share my experience recently. I went to a very nice Hifi shop and was treated royally to a listening session to multiple systems.

I had always been excited to hear Wilson speakers and dagostino but it is not available too many places. I finally had the chance this week and it was a total disappointment. No bass, no midrange, no body. My TAD CR1 stomp a mud hole in the alexx v. So too do my dynaudio confidence 30.

The top system consisted of Alexx V, full dagostino, MSB cascade, stromtank , full transparent loom.

I’ve honestly had better sound from a Naim MUSO. I was so excited to get in the seat and let the sound wash over me and as soon as it started it just sounded broken.

I went to the next room which was Mac and SF and i was absolutely floored at the sq. Full Mac setup with Hifi rose streamer and a set of the new amatis. It was Absolutley night and day. Not a taste thing either. The dealer said the Mac system was coloured. I said he was right. It was like viewing a colour portrait vs one that was monochrome.

I have speant a lot of money buying so much of this so called high end but I am going back to Mac. It gave me the fizz that nearly 1 mil of gear could not.

I’m curious about others who have met their Hifi heroes and been let down horribly. The dealer conceded with the sound deficit and said he was hoping for people who are unaware to simply buy the system upon seeing it. This happens all the time here as well btw.

There were Sabrina’s in another room and they stunk too. Personally I will not be owning a pair of Wilson’s but I realize many seem to like them. It was a rough outing for them here though.
View attachment 144599

This system looks like all show and no go. I appears to be laid out to be very visually appealing. That looks like a glass table in front of the listening chair. The Wadax is on the floor. The MSB pieces are stacked on each other. Take the exact components (minus the Stromtank), properly set them up paying attention to the details and the sound would be transformed.

 

[heihei]

I heard Chronosonics driven by D'Ag Relentless fronted by dCS Varese run off a Stromtank at the weekend in NYC and was not impressed. No detail in the soundstage, you could clearly hear the hand-off across the drivers, i.e. violins coming from the top, cellos from the bottom etc.
Given the cost of the system and the amount of time that had gone into setting it up, I was disappointed although not hugely surprised.

 

[Bretson]

There have been a couple people infer that I am trolling Wilson which is kind of funny. Admittedly, the timing is a bit coincidental but it’s more truly a matter of circumstance.

One individual here stated that the dealer agreed with the me on my report of the assessed sound as he was trying to close a deal. I think that’s probably closest to the mark regarding his agreement on my perception of the sound.

I would love to hear the same setup in a different room. I’ve owned a couple speakers where I experienced similar dynamic constraint. The magico s5mkii and the PMC EB1i. Both of these speakers had any issues corrected by being put in a larger room.

I suspect the Wilson’s are like the speakers mentioned above. They need to have sound “drawn” out of them. I’m guessing a bigger room would go a long way to solving this. I think we’ve probably all seen Jays channel where he has gone through great lengths to get his Wilson’s singing. He obviously loves them.

I simply prefer the approach of some other designers. TAD’s approach that just gives me the beans regardless of the room or setup is more in my lane. I’ve had the ME1 , EVO 1 and now CR1 mkii and they all deliver wherever they are placed.

I’ve seen some other systems in that same room that were excellent. It just didn’t click on Wilson day.

 

[Charles S]

You don't have to be a troll to troll. WBF is an absolutely fantastic audio forum. It is the best by a light year. But I have observed that there is what I refer to as Wilson jealousy or Wilson envy on it. I have owned a Maxx3 and an Alexx. Both are wonderful speakers. The AlexxV is the speaker that I would buy if I did not own an XVX, because I would know the sonic signature I was working with. In some rooms it will sound better or as good as an XVX. Many don't like or appreciate the Wilson sound. I make it a point never to trash a manufacturer by using hyperbole, and I will tell you that well-heeled audiophiles don't pay any attention to your comments, when you do. Remember, this is a hobby. Folks take their hobbies seriously. There's a lot of us very happy Wilson and Dag owners out there and sometimes things are best left unsaid or say with more respect than many of you say it.

I think Dan D'Agostino is among the 5 greatest of all audio engineers because of his remarkable designs and because of his staying power. But I personally believe that he makes an expensive product and then replaces it with an upgrade too quickly for my taste. Recently, I had one of my meters fail in my left backup 1.25KW. Because of my long association with Mac, they are sending me a new meter at no charge even though the amp is 7 years old and out of warranty, and Nashville Amplifier Service will be replacing it, turnaround time 48 hours for an extra 140 dollars. Hifi Buys is picking it up today at 1 pm. The 1.25KW will have a production run of probably 15-20 years. This is much more to my personal taste, but I have tremendous respect for all Dag designs. It's just a different philosophy that Mr. D'Agostino has.

p.s. Mac is also sending me a replacement EL509S at no charge for my MC3500. The tube failed immediately. The retail cost of these tubes is 128 dollars. Both Wilson and Audioquest have both been so kind to me over the years. I get all my tubes tested at no charge by Nashville Amplifier Service. It's a fantastic company.

Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest

Amps: McIntosh: MC3500MKII (2); MC1.25KW (2); MC2.1KW An
Preamp: C-12000 An
Sources: MCD12000 An; MVP881; MVP851; MR87; Marantz 510LV; Lenovo Yoga laptop
Speakers: Wilson Chronosonic XVX
Sub-Woofer: Wilson Thor’s Hammer; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables Main System AQ: WEL Signature speaker cables; 24’ balanced IC; balanced 1-meter Dragon IC ; WEL Signature digital, Coffee digital coaxial cables; Diamond optical (2); Diamond USB; Dragon (5 HC, 3 source cords); Thunder & Monsoon power cords
Cables Subwoofer System AQ: Redwood speaker cable; Wolf balanced subwoofer IC; Wind balanced IC to ActivXO; Hurricane HC; Firebird HC; Firebird Source; Dragon HC, power cords
Power Conditioners: AQ Niagara 7000; Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines.
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals; Bassocontinuo McIntosh Ultra Feet; X-material plinth
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD)
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes

 

[Salectric]

This statement by @craigr matches my reactions to the Chronosonics exactly:

“They can sound very articulate, and the bass can literally vibrate your body. But, for CLASSICAL music, they are analytical, cold, clinical . Every detail is present, but the MUSIC is not.”

I only heard the Chronosonics once but it was a dealer showroom with all ARC electronics. The selections played were all streaming. When I got home I played the same tracks on my system and much preferred the sound at home.

I chalk up the different reactions to taste and subjective preferences.

 

[mtemur]

You don't have to be a troll to troll.

But I have observed that there is what I refer to as Wilson jealousy or Wilson envy on it.

It’s great to learn that anybody doesn’t like Wilson Audio has to be trolling. They’re also jealous and Wilson envy.

Wilson speakers don’t only reproduce flawless music but also reveal the people who are trolls and jealous that don’t appreciate quality music playback. Wow, good to know.

Thank you for being open minded, impartial and free from prejudice.

 

[bonzo75]

I heard Chronosonics driven by D'Ag Relentless fronted by dCS Varese run off a Stromtank at the weekend in NYC and was not impressed. No detail in the soundstage, you could clearly hear the hand-off across the drivers, i.e. violins coming from the top, cellos from the bottom etc.
Given the cost of the system and the amount of time that had gone into setting it up, I was disappointed although not hugely surprised.

Is "bonzo75" your second screen name?

 

[Porsche]

It’s great to know that anybody doesn’t like Wilson Audio has to be trolling. They’re also jealous and Wilson envy.

Wilson speakers don’t only reproduce flawless music but also reveal the people who are trolls and jealous that don’t appreciate quality music playback. Wow, good to know.

Thank you for being open minded, impartial and free from prejudice.

so very true, if you do not like my gear its cause you are a troll or an idiot. folks are way to much offended now adays

I heard the larger Wilson a few months ago at evolution home theatre in buckhead, ga, not sure on model but they where I believe $450k pair, matched with topped agostino and the new dcs stack along with transparent cables, million dollar system, sounded very nice, but again it should

listened to 2 other Wilson systems again with dcs. agostino, transparent, etc one was about $200k, the other $300k, did nothing for me, I have never been a fan of Wilson but many are and that's what makes this business fun, so many options

 

[Charles S]

I don't know most of you, but Porsche sells his speakers. He's never liked Wilson and as I remember doesn't like McIntosh either. I think that most of you are biased toward your brands which is fine with me. I could care less, but other than an academic discussion which always seems to revolve around why you don't like Wilson speakers, to anybody that is a layperson like me, your comments are amusing, interesting, and essentially useless other than for entertainment purposes to see how your minds work. I can see how you enjoy WBF tremendously because academic discussions among dealers, industry professionals, and small manufacturers that are in direct competition with Wilson can't be taken seriously. They are worse than reviews.

 

[Porsche]

I don't know most of you, but Porsche sells his speakers. He's never liked Wilson and as I remember doesn't like McIntosh either. I think that most of you are biased toward your brands which is fine with me. I could care less, but other than an academic discussion which always seems to revolve around why you don't like Wilson speakers, to anybody that is a layperson like me, your comments are amusing, interesting, and essentially useless other than for entertainment purposes to see how your minds work. I can see how you enjoy WBF tremendously because academic discussions among dealers, industry professionals, and small manufacturers that are in direct competition with Wilson can't be taken seriously. They are worse than reviews.

1st off, im not in competition with anyone when it comes to speakers, I build/design for my specific clients, local only. I am a fan of many speakers, Avalon, magico, Dynaudio, rockport, to name a few. I simply do not like Wilson, they lack low-end for there size and they have always been a "in your face" speaker in my opinion. I do not like the midrange air tweeter in them at all for the money spent, period.

McIntosh, you are correct, they do nothing for me, for the money there is so much better, im a fan of burmester, accuphase, fm acoustics, gryphon, soulution, spectral to name a few.

what I like or dislike has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I design/build or sell as a dealer, period

sorry to hurt your feelings Charles, but that's my opinion on likes/dislikes, has nothing to do with you or anything else other than its not my cup of tea, if someone dislike burmester so what, that's there right but im not going to say they are jealous/envious/etc that's asinine IMO, different strokes for different folks, that's why this business/hobby exist

 

[A-Line]

I dont think its the speakers .
If they put the MAC on the wilsons you might very well like them .
Put VTL ARC CAT on Wilsons and you get a different vibe ,

The Culprit is the one who declared ' D agostino " as somehow " Neutral" amplification.
Probably some magazine no no came up with that nonsense..



That said MAC / SF - Wilson /DAG is about as wide of an opposite in audio as you can get

I've never heard any DAG components but will soon. Linn has a new plinth that I'll be checking out once the Linn shop gets one in. The Linn dealer carries DAG also so I'll give those electronics a listen at that time.

Big speakers aren't really my thing, I prefer a small & simple setup for all of my music playback. I've heard Wilson speakers a few times and they were always paired with ARC stuff. Wilson made a speaker once called: "Duette" which sounded nice being run by Linn electronics. The rest of the Wilson speakers didn't sound right to me.

ARC is different than MAC in terms of sound, like most electronics sound different anyway, hence the wide variety of brands currently available.
A few brands lean more towards neutral sound than others.

Live audition of components is the only way to be sure that you're fully informed regarding sound and whether or not a purchase can move forward or simply move on & keep looking for the next puzzle piece.


MAC with SF speakers are a good match for some, others have different goals and preferences and will want something different.
ARC is not a brand that I like in terms of sound, McIntosh amplifiers are my brand of choice, others have their favorites.


Just my opinions.

 

[Charles S]

Porsche, if you think you hurt my feelings it shows how far off base you are. Your response is totally predictable. I had forgotten that you sell Burmester. I hope sincerely that you are selling a lot of your gear. I think that your speakers look great, and I would have no problem giving them an audition. You are passionate about the high end. Burmester is a fantastic amplifier brand, one of the very best and it shows your good taste. But unfortunately, you sound like a broken record in your continual negative comments concerning Wilson speakers and McIntosh amplifiers. Folks simply need to know that you are one of the vocal Wilson and McIntosh decriers, and therefore all your comments should be taken with this in mind.