Downsizing from dCS Vivaldi Stack? Is this dumb?
- Thread starter netteb16
- Start date
Agree, you can't conclude anything from the videos. I have heard the dCS Vivaldi many times. In real life you can get much better sounds out of it than on the videos posted.
I decided to stand pat with the Vivaldi stack. I flirted a bit with MSB but didn’t think I was truly gaining anything. Maybe a bit less analytical, but A/B comparisons in a system are basically impossible (at least for my untrained ears). I actually really like the Mola Mola Tambiqui, hearing it a couple times, but not in my system. If I did decide to simplify my system, I think I actually might go the Mola Mola route..
Definitely, to my ears, and to the ears of my host, in direct comparison.
Nonsense. It depends on system context how the Vivaldi sounds. At the same time I also listened to other DACs, including in the same system, as well as to vinyl. And to live concerts of unamplified music.
Yes, we can't, and no, it doesn't help. System videos -- especially those made with non-professional equipment like a phone, but really all of them -- are the most irrational thing that has ever happened to high-end audio.
System videos are incapable of reproducing, or even be reasonably representative of, the *absolute* sound of a system. And comparisons between videos of different systems are a non-starter.
At best, system videos can give you a very *crude* idea of *relative* changes within a system by switching of components if otherwise recording conditions are *exactly* the same in both conditions.
No, your Oppo doesn't sound good either in your videos, which like most system videos do exhibit unpleasant glare/noise.
I don't mean to sound offensive, BUT
It can be seen that you are making an effort in your responses to try to convince, but honestly, friend, I don't even know how to refer to the things you wrote, and/or showed,
A few words about OPPO players in general,
I have owned every OPPO player including
83NE, 95, 105, 105 modified and I was before ordering the 205 as well 4 years ago, the OPPO players are really something special, and their advantage is like a "Swiss Army Knife", giving everything from everything, in comfort and in practice, however it never impressed me, no matter what SETUP there was combined as DACs/source,
OPPO's sound has always felt too dry and too narrow to me, BTW, it sounds like that in your video, BTW2, why do I hear so much noise in your recording? What AC treatment do you have and what Cables do you use?
If we still judge by videos, which is extremely ridiculous, the video of the XLF with CH sounds significant, alive, convincing, clear and accurate than what you tried to show - So the dcs really isn't the problem.
I'm not a fan of dcs, even on the contrary, from my experience with dcs in the last few months and in SETUPs where I heard combinations of them, my impression was very low, despite the advantages in some of the SETUPs I heard, where it demonstrated speed, sharpness and clarity that I really liked in some cases, it's a company for digital which for me does not represent digital (analog) properly,
BUT to compare "apples" with "watermelons", and more, on based on various videos in which is totally ridiculous and does not fit this strong area/hobby at all.
Thank you for the response. It's certainly not one I can disagree with. I'm down to Vivaldi Apex One (used); an MSB Reference (used) with the clock and director, etc; and and Tambiqui (new).
The Apex One would be the least trouble, as I could take out my Esoteric K-03XD (CD transport/DAC) and just slide it into place. It's presumably essentially the same transport, as they are both the nicest-side of TEAC.
The MSB would be a PIA to fit into the system and kill an afternoon.
Again, my emotional favorite remains the Nagra HD X, but the sheer lack of information on the actual digital conversion process tells this cynical oil man that its either nothing special or a weakness supported by its amazing analog side -- which I have already in the Nagra HD pre. It would also be a PIA to make fit.
The Tambiqui would fit with some minor fiddling, is the cheapest by far, and may, indeed, be the best, or at least the near equal of the Apex. Certainly in the ballpark. It's probably the smart move.
That said, it's not exactly an emergency, and lacking clear guidance, tells me I should stand pat for a bit. I've learned a lot from others who are also vacillating.
And that is what is important. I am very happy you have found something that pleases you. That is the entire purpose of a music system.
That is not how it works, but, again, very happy for you. I suppose it's a bit like the debate about tubes vs. solid state.
One place you might want to investigate is the Audio Science Review Forum. They tend to have a cynical (some say envious) view of a lot of nicer audio equipment and go way overboard on their reliance in testing (when there are certain things that cannot be tested -- at least not with our current knowledge of both the human brain/hearing and electronics) but they are a good data point on reviews and do help one spot marketing hype and the worst snake oil.
Of particular relevance to you, there are some great articles/threads/videos on how digital-to-analog conversion actually works. I suspect you have some strong ideas on this matter and considerable knowledge, but a fresh review may be helpful for you.
I would encourage you to copy-and-paste your post (with more detail of your revisions) and get feedback from that crowd.
The Tambaqui is excellent indeed, high resolution and musical.
However, hearing it first in your system before purchase would be, as always, required. It may or may not be very difficult to do so.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
FYI there are a bunch of new products in the DAC area that will premiered at MOC next week.
Wadax and CH Precision both are unveiling new items and I have heard that there are others replacing thier gear as well.
We shall see!
Wadax and CH Precision both are unveiling new items and I have heard that there are others replacing thier gear as well.
We shall see!
anyone heard anything about the all-new $300k-$400k dCS "Wadax rival" maybe at Munich? i heard rumors about it from a reliable source last year, but nothing since.
this is suppose to be a complete departure from the Vivaldi line up, the Apex upgrade was said to be a stop gap to give dealers a temporary life line until this new series could be introduced.
but seen nothing, heard nothing. just crickets so far.
and it will also be interesting to see whether the next version of dacs will work optimally with the new Taiko server.
this is suppose to be a complete departure from the Vivaldi line up, the Apex upgrade was said to be a stop gap to give dealers a temporary life line until this new series could be introduced.
but seen nothing, heard nothing. just crickets so far.
and it will also be interesting to see whether the next version of dacs will work optimally with the new Taiko server.
I like that. Thank you!
Thank you for your kind words!
Every ears are different. For my ears, my humble Oppo sounds closest to the original music. Others probably hear it differently. Cheers,
And this, I suppose, is why I have a bit of vapor lock.
I get the distinct impression (based on nothing but history) that very new tech is bubbling up. Not sure why I’ve got that feeling.
It may be because lots of very nice DACs are hitting the used market suddenly.
One of my clients is transitioning from the DCS Vivaldi Apex Stack to the Aries Cerat Ithaka DAC after experiencing its sound in our room. He discovered that the Aries Cerat resonated more with his preferences. While acknowledging the excellence of DCS products, I have always perceived MSB DACs as less analytical and more listener-friendly.
I've only heard rumors but the price range you listed feels on the high side. I'm also not sure that it will be a change that filters into the rest of the line (ala MSB Cascade) in terms of new models but I'm not sure anyone really knows.
I might also suggest that Apex was entirely new hardware that Andy and Chris developed during the pandemic so it was really an evolution of the Ring DAC.
I do see the brilliance of them not introducing at Munich. I think they may have been lost in all the announcements.
